Is sub 3 possible for me in 9 weeks? 16 weeks actually (Read 609 times)

Julia1971


    I love this place. (That reminds me that I should donate again).

     

    I know many of you are very experienced and much faster and I love your concrete examples and experiences to gauge my training. The great thing for me in RA is that I don't need to follow any of your plans, however, your comments have influenced my decisions and my trainings one way or the other. That is the reason that I don't go for a specific coach. He/She may get annoyed if I don't follow his/her plan.

     

    I know everyone warns me that I should not really run a sub-3 this time. If I am still too stubborn to change and still go for a sub-3, what is a strategy to test out my sub-3 ability for this coming taping down long run (16-17 miles). By the way, there are 16 days to go for the race.

     

    I'm not one of the sub-3 folks but I will say - since I think you're going to do it anyway and maybe want a glimmer of hope Smile - that I frequently fail at MP workouts yet manage to run pretty close to GMP when race day comes around.  I think MP is becoming another one of those elements of marathon training that people are emphasizing over other things.  (I remind myself some times: You're not trying to run 8, 10, or 12 miles at GMP.  You're trying to run 26.2 at GMP).  So, that's why I was more interested in what your overall volume has been.  For example, last year for NYCM, my MP workout were 8 @ 8:35 pace, 10 @ 8:08, 8.5 @ 8:17 (I was supposed to do 12 miles but stopped the workout since it was going so poorly), and finally 14 @ 7:50.  I ran 7:45 pace on race day.  But, I was running 70+ miles a week and most of those runs were on tired legs. If your volume is relatively low AND you're not hitting that pace, then...  In any event, for that last long run, I would just focus on having an evenly paced, relaxed, confidence boosting run.  You're 3 weeks out - you're in "more harm than good" territory and need to be careful about doing something that not only isn't helping but causes an injury.

     

    Good luck, though!  I love being proved wrong when it means people get fancy new PRs.  Smile

    Run the mile you are in.


    The Pocatello Kid.

      you lost me at "my marathon PR sucks" :P

       

       

       

       


       

      One of the two reasons my marathon PR sucks is because I HAD to have one last mental boost a month out from my goal marathon and did 14 miles at goal MP.  It did not have a positive impact on my training (largely as the other reason my PR sucks is that this workout was preceded 8 days earlier by the best 10K of my life and I was already teetering on the edge of over-training).  In looking back on the whole affair, I don't think most people can assimilate such a long effort at that intensity under full training load without digging themselves into a real hole.

       

      Now, if you know how to run it at marathon EFFORT, and not goal pace, it's quite different.


      Interval Junkie --Nobby

        A 10K race, two weeks out?  That load on the body is easier to work-off than 14w/11@MP?

         

        I would not have guessed that.

         

        I would also think the risk of injury in a 10K race is much higher than a 14miler-MP run.

         

        Spaniel and the others know a LOT more than I do about this stuff, though.

        2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

        Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!


        Feeling the growl again

          A 10K race, two weeks out?  That load on the body is easier to work-off than 14w/11@MP?

           

          I would not have guessed that.

           

          I would also think the risk of injury in a 10K race is much higher than a 14miler-MP run.

           

          Unless I missed something, the talk was around 14@MP, not 11@MP.  (??)

           

          And again, it depends if we are talking goal MP or marathon effort.

           

          Recovery from a 10K race should take 2-3 days.  Recovery from 14@MP is going to take longer than that likely.

           

          Injury risk is highly individual.  Running faster does not necessarily mean higher rate of injury.  I've seen more injuries when people get tired (like at the end of long or long/fast runs) than from running at 5K/10K speed.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

            This has turned into a great thread.

             

            Goorun


              Injuries are little bit of topic in this thread, but I see more people get injured from poor running form than anything else. Of course it is happening more often when you are tired. It is a combination of things.

               

              back to the topic and to David. You are too close to the race. Run less and run faster, but not hard.

              DON'T DO ANYTHING  STUPID. 

              Slow and steady never wins anything.

              Goorun


                 

                I'm not one of the sub-3 folks

                As a female you are more than equivalent to sub 3 guys.

                Slow and steady never wins anything.


                Interval Junkie --Nobby

                  Unless I missed something, the talk was around 14@MP, not 11@MP.  (??)

                   

                  And again, it depends if we are talking goal MP or marathon effort.

                   

                  Recovery from a 10K race should take 2-3 days.  Recovery from 14@MP is going to take longer than that likely.

                   

                  Injury risk is highly individual.  Running faster does not necessarily mean higher rate of injury.  I've seen more injuries when people get tired (like at the end of long or long/fast runs) than from running at 5K/10K speed.

                   

                  "2weeks out I'd be doing a 14miler with 11 at MP, the first 3 at whatever pace I plan for the race."  The last part probably is where the confusion is; my M race-plans usually start with the first 3 miles much slower than MP-GP.  7:20, 7:10, 6:57.  Something like that before rolling into MP-GP.  That is what I was suggesting, not 14mi @ MP -- though if you try to hit your MP from the line, then you'd probably read my recommendation differently.

                   

                  I'm still not convinced a 10K race is a better idea, but I concede to your greater experience.

                  2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                  Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!

                     I'm still not convinced a 10K race is a better idea, but I concede to your greater experience.

                     

                    racing a 10k is a good way to get greater experience

                    Know thyself.

                     

                       

                      I would have thought sub 39 run steady without a fade. McMillian says sub 38:30. If that's not possible the endurance probably isn't there.

                       

                      You're right.  39 is about the line from Daniels but the other Gurus look for a bit faster (Daniels has always been closer to my races) but if David could knock out 39:20 or better while not killing himself in a 10K two weeks out, I'd say he's got a shot.  Still unlikely because of endurance issues but not out of the question.  At least he'd know whether he's even in the ballpark.

                       

                      BTW, I think a 10K race a couple weeks out works great for a final tuneup.  10K is about the perfect distance for this kind of thing, not too hard to recover from, not too short that you're using completely different systems, big-time confidence builder because it should make you feel like you're 'fast'.


                      I'm back!

                        I'd also think that a 10K two weeks out is not unreasonable, and a good test. I'd be looking for < 39 at least (modulo course). FWIW I ran 38:44 three weeks before my first sub-3, and considered that I was right on the edge; I only had a shot because I'm better at longer distances.

                         

                        I'd also vote against a long MP run two weeks out.

                          I like how we carry on about a 10K two weeks out as if David is going find one no problem.


                          Feeling the growl again

                            I like how we carry on about a 10K two weeks out as if David is going find one no problem.

                             

                            LINK - 5 miler seems close enough to 10K.

                             

                            That's why I also said time trial.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              Time trials are tough. I can't time trial within a minute of what I can race a 10k. I can hardly time trial within 5 minutes of what I can race a half. For folks like me it would be a negative. This is why we race.

                                yeah, time trialing's basically a skill that's only practiced when you have a HS or college coach say, "you must run x for me to even consider putting you on the team."

                                Know thyself.