1234

Rolling Stop....cycling situation (Read 1969 times)


just a simple cat

    Get out a town by sundown, Brown

     

    I  guess as you get more bodacious, you begin to lose more brain cells, because there is a limit to how much magnificence your body can house

      This is a stopped school bus in question, correct?

      You can't pass a stopped school bus.


      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_bus_traffic_stop_laws

       

      I really don't want to perpetuate this thread.....My motives for not stopping were more selfish than they were for my safety....For the record, I stopped today.

       

      Anyway...I was just wondering if you actually read your link ?

       

      Here's an excerpt:

       

      American and Canadian jurisdictions have sought to deter illegal passing stopped school buses by increased enforcement and heavy penalties, including fines, application of demerit points against a driver's license or even license suspension. Nevertheless, violations are common. An officer must witness the violation, and even when citations issued, getting convictions is often difficult [2]; sometimes traffic courts consider the evidence insufficient, or reduce the charge because the penalty for a first offense seems excessive.

      The effectiveness of current school bus stop laws has been questioned. School bus stop laws in some other countries allow a driver to pass a stopped school bus at low speed. While passing stopped school bus illegally itself is not considered speeding throughout the United States and Canada (the penalties apply without regard to how fast the driver passes the bus), passing a stopped school bus at a high speed may involve another violation (such as speeding).

      In New York State, an official estimate is that 50000 vehicles pass stopped school buses illegally every day [3]. However, as New York State requires traffic to stop for a school bus stopped on the opposing roadway of a divided highway, the estimate may include "New York violations" that would be legal in other states. The New York State Department of Transportation once recommended that the State Legislature exempt traffic from stopping for a school bus stopped on the opposing roadway of a divided highway, but this has not been done.

      Not a very strong argument for trying to get someone to curtail an illegal activity.

      www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

        This is a stopped school bus in question, correct?

        You can't pass a stopped school bus.


         

        My daddy always told me can't never could.

          I was wondering, if you get ticketed on your bike, what can the police really do if you don't pay the fine. I know if you're ticketed in your car, they take your license and you get it back after paying the ticket, but if you're riding a bike you're not required to carry a license.
          2010 Goals: Run 1500 miles Sub 22 minute 5K Sub 37 minute 8K Sub 1:45 HM Complete a marathon
            So you want to ride on the road and be treated like a car, but yet be excused from rules you don't like.  Can't play both sides of the fence, have to obey all the laws.

            Second, my bus driver will wait for the stop to be finished, pull in the stop signs and turn off the flashers and sit there.  That is the signal for you to pass her...if you don't pass her she will open the window and wave you around.  Very good solution IMO. 



            Maybe you work out this deal with her...you stop the first time and when she is done she lets you pass?

            lap


               

              I really don't want to perpetuate this thread.....My motives for not stopping were more selfish than they were for my safety....For the record, I stopped today.

               

              Anyway...I was just wondering if you actually read your link ?

               

              Here's an excerpt:

               

              American and Canadian jurisdictions have sought to deter illegal passing stopped school buses by increased enforcement and heavy penalties, including fines, application of demerit points against a driver's license or even license suspension. Nevertheless, violations are common. An officer must witness the violation, and even when citations issued, getting convictions is often difficult [2]; sometimes traffic courts consider the evidence insufficient, or reduce the charge because the penalty for a first offense seems excessive.

              The effectiveness of current school bus stop laws has been questioned. School bus stop laws in some other countries allow a driver to pass a stopped school bus at low speed. While passing stopped school bus illegally itself is not considered speeding throughout the United States and Canada (the penalties apply without regard to how fast the driver passes the bus), passing a stopped school bus at a high speed may involve another violation (such as speeding).

              In New York State, an official estimate is that 50000 vehicles pass stopped school buses illegally every day [3]. However, as New York State requires traffic to stop for a school bus stopped on the opposing roadway of a divided highway, the estimate may include "New York violations" that would be legal in other states. The New York State Department of Transportation once recommended that the State Legislature exempt traffic from stopping for a school bus stopped on the opposing roadway of a divided highway, but this has not been done.

              Not a very strong argument for trying to get someone to curtail an illegal activity.

               

              Of course I read the link.  What's the justification that you extract from those selected passages?

              "While passing stopped school bus illegally itself is not considered speeding throughout the United States..."

              notice the "illegally" adjective there?

              But since the legality of the action is not persuasive to you, and I'd hazard that's why the bus driver was irritated with you, perhaps the reasoning behind the law will be.  You are much less likely to mow down froggy brained little kids if you obey the law than if you do not obey the law.

              2014 goals:
              don't get injured

                 

                 

                 You are much less likely to mow down froggy brained little kids if you obey the law than if you do not obey the law.

                 

                1st, this was never about legallity.....I clearly stated that I knew what the law was.

                 

                2nd, Either you are purposely trying to bias the discussion with your above statement or you do not understand what a rolling stop is......nobody is going to get mowed down at 2 -4 mph.

                 

                3rdly, I picked that excerpt because it makes a better argument for anybody, 2 wheels or 4, peddle or motor,to pass a stopped bus than it does against it based on the lack of consequence.

                 

                The qx in my original post was....What would you do ? In that I was hoping to garner public opinion on....should there be different laws pertaining to cycles than motor vehicles. Clearly there is a difference.

                 

                To throw some things out there for thought.....

                 

                Many roads have minimum speed limits......you wouldn't expect a bicycle to be subject to these....maybe you wouldn't want them on the road but it's not illegal for them to be there unless stated. By todays law, the cyclist could be ticketd. Many of these same roads with minimum speed limits also have farm implement traffic.....again, you wouldn't expect these to be subject to the same rule and they are not. They have rules that allow them to travel these roads at slower speeds.

                 

                In many communities it is illegal to pass a moving vehicle in a residential neighborhood......should that apply to passing a cyclist on one of these streets....or is that alright for a motor vehicle to overtake the cyclist since it's it's small and you can safely navigate around them. I'll bet you'll never see a driver get ticketed for this.

                 

                What if I asked about throwing out the law requiring cyclist needing to make turn signals ?  I'm sure most could give a hoot then. The rolling stop gets alot of attention because it seems that cyclist are getting special attention...something drivers of motor vehicles would like to do but can't.

                 

                And....finally.....admittedly.....several 100's of cyclist in every community through out the united states have given us a bad rap for thier blantant disregard for the law and safety. As much as we try to work with the motorized public we also work with cyclist.

                 

                www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

                  Take it easy on Slo--he's got a stress fracture.

                    From Kballard

                     

                    So you want to ride on the road and be treated like a car, but yet be excused from rules you don't like.  Can't play both sides of the fence, have to obey all the laws.

                    Reply:

                    Yes, I want to ride on the roads, be treated somewhat like a car and be excused from the laws that were written for motorized vehicles.



                    Second, my bus driver will wait for the stop to be finished, pull in the stop signs and turn off the flashers and sit there.  That is the signal for you to pass her...if you don't pass her she will open the window and wave you around.  Very good solution IMO. 

                    Reply:

                    I'm assuming you are in a car......This is not practicle on a bike because In order for her to see me I would have to be on the left side of the travel lane.....this is an illegal position for a bike unless I'm making a left hand turn.  Not to mention a very unsafe place to be. If I were to practice this I highly doubt cars would wait for me to pass before they began thiers....putting them further over into the uncoming lane. She already does this for any cars that stop behind her.....not once have I been able to get around.



                    Maybe you work out this deal with her...you stop the first time and when she is done she lets you pass?

                    Reply:

                    I did worked out a deal with her....she has no problem with me passing as I had.....after she discovered I wasn't some arrogant cyclist like so many people like to assume when they see an adult riding a bike.

                    www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

                      Take it easy on Slo--he's got a stress fracture.

                       Is this called tweaking

                      www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

                         Is this called tweaking

                         

                        Pretty much classic dictionary definition.

                          I'd call it jonesing more than tweaking.  But the symptoms can be very similar.

                          Runners run.

                          xor


                            Just don't listen to The Smiths.  That's super depressing in large quantities.

                             

                              Why dont you just start leaving 5 or 10 mins earlier in the morning.  Then you can do whatever the hell you want w/o being bothered by the pesky bus driver.
                              lap


                                Sorry if I wasn't fair to you, Slo.  You just managed to combine two of my pet peeves in one post, rolling stops and going around stopped school buses with the red lights flashing and the stop sign out.  Last weekend, I was nearly hit by two cars at four way stops who subscribe to the rolling stop philosophy.  And I've seen a few too many impatient drivers recklessly pull around the stopped school buses, either due to obliviousness or a need to get somewhere faster than everyone else.  So the premise here made me grumpy.


                                So back to your original Q: What would I do?


                                I'd try to find a different time or route where I wouldn't have to pass the stopped school bus.  Absent that possibility, I'd wait behind the school bus.


                                If you are certain you'll never hit a child or a parent/sibling/baby sitter/grandma who is walking in front of the stopped bus, that's great.  But I don't see how you can be certain of that.  If you run into grandma going 3 mph, knock her down, and break her hip, that would suck for both of you.


                                Another thing to consider here is that you are putting the bus driver in a bad situation.  Her job is to get the kids to school safely, and bikes going around her is a distraction.  She likely said that other drivers might report you because they are  supposed to report you.  It's part of their job.  OK, but you are a good bike rider, not an arrogant one.  What happens, though, if an arrogant bike rider, following your example, blows around the bus at 20 mph, mowing down a babysitter with an infant in an baby bjorn, putting both in the hospital?  At the subsequent trial, it comes out that  the bus driver didn't enforce the rules that are part of  her job description, so she loses her job.  She then moves into your basement.


                                That's all just too risky for me.    

                                2014 goals:
                                don't get injured

                                1234