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| Considering a galloway style marathon - looking for input on pacing. (Read 522 times) |
Mr Inertia view logHeck of a Guy |
posted: 5/5/2008 at 6:33 PM |
A little background:
Training for my second marathon (Bayshore on 5/24). Training had been going well until 4/6 when I came down with a very serious flu (two, actually, back to back) which totally derailled my training for 3 weeks. It has taken me MUCH longer than expected to get back up to pre race fitness.
I do not want to DNS, although I haven't totally ruled that out.
Just prior to falling ill, I ran a 1:59:48 HM. Obviously that's not worth anything when predicting my performance later this month at Bayshore. I am going to try for a 4:30.
Here's my question: If I would like to hit a 4:30 which is just about a 10:20 average pace and am going to run a mile, walk a minute, what should my pace be for the mile's worth of running? I was guessing very close to 10:00. Or do I need to sit down and do the math to determine my running pace?
Of course I've seen Galloway debted ad nauseum and I'm not looking for that here. I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation and I think this might be one option for that. |
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posted: 5/5/2008 at 6:40 PM |
If I remember from readings on Galloways walk/run program when you walk for one minute I think that someone had calculated that you really only lose about 15 seconds (I am pretty sure that this assumes the walk portion is not some slow leisurely stroll as well).
So given that a 4:40 is a 10:18 pace and you are going to lose 15 seconds you would probably need to run a little bit over a 10 minute pace - maybe 10:05-10:10 I think. Though I am tired and maybe my math is off right now. |
"80% of success is showing up." ~ Woody Allen
"Go that way... really fast. If something gets in your way... turn." ~ Charles DeMar
God doesn't give you what you want. He gives you what you need, the rest is up to you. |
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| view log You Wanna Buy a Comet? |
posted: 5/5/2008 at 6:47 PM |
Not bad math Jeff!
Here is a link from Coolrunning Galloway page for pace calculators. This is courtesy of UncleSteve59. I donwloaded and have no problems with it on my computer. I used Galloway a little and found it was helpful in keeping me moving while I recovered from injury.
Good luck.
ftp://ftp2.rediker.com/updates/Steve/RunCalcs/RunCalcsSetup.exe |
Illegitimis non carborundum
2008 goals:
1) run a fall marathon (Indy)
2) stay injury free
3) PR 5K, 10K, HM & M
4) get my kids to start running with me
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posted: 5/5/2008 at 6:52 PM |
A friend of mine just requalified for Boston with 3:40 something using the Galloway method. His 16 y/o son ran 3:45 something, during that same race (NJ Marathon) using the same method.
My friend (Tom) said that he has now proven twice that he runs better marathons using the Galloway method than when he races without. |
~Michelle
Southeastern PA Group
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posted: 5/5/2008 at 7:54 PM
modified: 5/5/2008 at 8:11 PM |
From Galloway's book, "Marathon!":
For first three to five miles:
--Run marathon pace during the running parts and take the walk breaks.
--A one-minute walk break (for the average person) will slow you by 15 to 18 seconds.
--A slightly slower pace will allow the legs to warm up.
--Remember to adjust your pace for heat, humidity and hills.
Between three and eight miles:
--Shift to running faster in the running portions, and take the walk breaks.
--You will gradually pick up the pace so that by eight miles, you're running at goal pace when you average the walk breaks and the running segments.
--If it's a struggle to pick up the pace, stay at an effort level that is comfortable.
--Don't even think about cutting your walk breaks short to sped things up
Between eight and eighteen miles:
--Run at marathon goal pace (run faster to compensate for walk breaks.
--Run each mile about 15 to 18 seconds faster than your goal pace, then walk.
--Stay smooth as you ease down to walk, and ease back up into running.
--Compute your pace each mile.
--Uphill miles can be slower, and downhill miles can be faster than goal pace.
After 18 miles:
--You can cut out the walk breaks, if you're feeling strong (and want to).
--An alternative: walk for 30 seconds for several walk breaks before eliminating them.
--If you need the breaks but legs are cramping, shuffle intead of walking.
After 23 miles:
--You can keep picking up the pace if you feel like it.
When using Galloway's method, it is still important that goal MP/time be what you are realistically capable of running, which is usually projected from a shorter distance race performance. Gallowalking is not a substitute for insufficient capability and/or preparation to run a specific time. It's simply an "err on the conservative side" method to help avoid pacing a marathon too fast, crashing, and badly missing a realistic goal.
For personal comments and experiences on the subject, see the Gallowalking section of my Running Page. |
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posted: 5/5/2008 at 8:48 PM
modified: 5/5/2008 at 8:56 PM |
Just run an even 10:00-10:10 pace and walk for a minute or two through the water stops to get a good drink of water/gatorade. Nothing looks sillier than Gallowalkers!
I checked your course, there is an aid station every 2 miles. If you just walked through the water stops, youd get 20 min run, 1-2 min walk which is really just a modified Galloway method. Then you dont need to obsess during the race about following the method to a T. |
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posted: 5/6/2008 at 10:10 PM
modified: 5/6/2008 at 10:16 PM |
| Quote from jeffdonahue on 5/5/2008 at 6:40 PM: If I remember from readings on Galloways walk/run program when you walk for one minute I think that someone had calculated that you really only lose about 15 seconds (I am pretty sure that this assumes the walk portion is not some slow leisurely stroll as well).
Hmm, let's look at the math on that "15 seconds lost" claim...
Let's say you are running 10 minutes per mile and walking 17 minutes per mile (3.5 mph).
In 10 minutes of running, you will cover 1 mile (10 min * 1 mi / 10 min = 1 mi).
In 1 minute of walking, you will cover 0.0588 mile (1 min * 1 mi / 17 min = 0.0588 mi).
So, the question becomes: how many seconds are lost while walking that 0.0588 mile? We know that walking that distance takes exactly 1 minute. How long would it have taken to run it? It would take 0.588 minutes to run that same distance (0.0588 mi * 10 min / 1 mi = 0.588 min). Multiply 0.588 by 60 to get the number of seconds, and we get 35 seconds.
Thus, walking 0.0588 mile took 1 minute, while running would have taken 35 seconds. The difference is 25 seconds, not 15.
In order to get to Galloway's "15 seconds lost", you would need a much smaller gap between your running and walking paces.
Example A: if you're running 10 minutes per mile, you would need to walk at 13:20 pace to keep the loss to only 15 seconds.
Example B: if you're running 8 minutes per mile, you would need to walk at 10:40 pace to meet Galloway's expectation.
Example C: if you're running 6 minutes per mile, you would need to walk at 8:00 pace.
So, the real question for the OP is, how fast are you planning to walk? |
2008 Goals
Sub-19 5k: ALMOST...19:02 (4/12/08)
Sub-40 10k: DONE...39:54 (5/26/08)
Sub-90 HM: DONE...1:29:56 (4/6/08) |
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Mr Inertia view logHeck of a Guy |
posted: 5/7/2008 at 12:44 PM |
| Quote from Dakota RR on 5/6/2008 at 10:10 PM:
So, the real question for the OP is, how fast are you planning to walk?
Between 3.5 and 4 mph
When I run on the TM and I'm walking my cooldown, that's the pace in which I feel I'm walking comfortably hard.
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| view log Swamp Henchman Chewie |
posted: 5/7/2008 at 1:20 PM |
I used to use Galloway. I won't do the debate, but in my experience, if you are under-trained, or untrained, and insist on doing a marathon anyway, there is no better way to get to the finish line. I did my first two on (at most) 100 miles preparation, one 13 mile run (maybe), and never more than 20 miles per week. Not recommended, but Galloway got me through it, and well under 4:30.
And for the record, I've tested it extensively in training and never, ever lost more than 20 seconds per mile when walking a mile per minute. YMMV.
As far as pace, I'd do what somebody suggested above: go out at ten minute pace and hold it, and just walk through the water stations. In most well-supported marathons, I think that's plenty of walking. I really don't think the whole stopping exactly on every mile marker thing is necessary. Or all that smart. And its easier to remember to just walk when you drink.
Good luck! |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
Original Pre-Editing Running-Related Song Lyrics
I would do anything for love
I'd run right into Hell and back.
Because its a flat out and back course.
And my friend BQ'd there.
~~ Meat Loaf |
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posted: 5/7/2008 at 2:40 PM
modified: 5/7/2008 at 2:59 PM |
Beneath all of the ridiculous marketing, the Galloway method works off of the following principles:
1) Time lost during walk breaks is less than time lost hitting the wall and fading the final 6-10 miles of the marathon.
2) Walk breaks will help people who are not adequately trained to race 26.2 miles avoid hitting the wall and fading the final 6-10 miles of the marathon.
3) Many people who enter marathons are not adequately trained to race 26.2 miles.
If #3 describes you, and it describes a whole lot of people (including myself). If you're someone who just wants to run a marathon for the accomplishment or for fun, rather than training 60-100 or more miles per week for a peak performance, the Galloway method is GREAT.
Unfortunately Galloway markets it such that walk breaks have been used to win marathons and set world records, so we have to debate endlessly. |
"On most days, run easy. On some days, run hard. But not too hard." |
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