Should I be constantly tired when training for a marathon? (Read 1039 times)

I'm currently training for a marathon and I'm almost at the half-way mark. I've been following the Pftizinger 55mi/24 wk plan.

The problem I have is that my legs are constantly tired and it's been getting harder and harder to do my runs over the last couple weeks. I've also been getting slower and slower.

Is this normal for marathon training? That is, you typically push your body as far as it'll go without breaking? E.g, today was suppose to be an easy 11-mile run. From the time I got up at 5am, I could tell I was tired, but I wanted to be sure it just wasn't me being lazy and wanting an extra 2 hours of sleep (I did get 8 hrs sleep), so I dressed and went out. From the first step, I knew it was going to be tough and by 1.5 miles, I gave up. I walked another 1.5 as I had nothing else to do anyway seeing it was so early.

A typically week so far in the Pftizinger plan is as follows:

Sun - Long
Mon - Rest
Tue - Medium Long
Wed - Recovery
Thu - Medium Long
Fri - Rest
Sat - Recovery

The long runs are all 17+ miles and the medium longs are 9+ miles.

I've come to realize that I probably can't hit the 50+ miles for a week, or if I do I would be a wreck the following week. I can probably sustain 40 miles, but I would need to rearrange the runs so I can get some recovery time.

I know the long Sunday run is the "the" most important one so I'll keep that and run it based on Pftizinger's plan which would give me 4 20-milers and 1 21-miler before the marathon.

I'm thinking of changing the runs during the week and doing just one medium-long run of 10 miles on a Wed and recovery 5-mile runs on the other days so every week would look like this, with the only variation coming on how long I run on the Sunday:

Sun - Long (17+ miles)
Mon - Rest
Tue - Easy 5 miles
Wed - Medium long 10-miles
Thu - Easy 5 miles
Fri - Easy 5 miles
Sat - Rest

If I did that next week, I'd hit 42 miles, but I'm thinking it may give my body a better chance of recovering. I would get 2 easy days after the long run and then 3 easy days before the following Sunday's long run.

Some questions:

- Is it OK to run the SAME distances every week during the week, or should I really be mixing it up?

- Should I instead just concentrate on the Sunday long runs and do my weekly runs purely based on how I feel

- The second half of the Pfitzinger plan calls for 2 speed workouts each week. I'm thinking it's probably OK for me to not worry about it too much, or should I still try and do a little speed work? Maybe run 2-3 miles of the Friday run at tempo pace, or is it just not going to make a difference and it's better to really run it "easy"

- The Pftizinger plans calls for 3 races on Saturdays in the 8-15K range. I would like to still do those later on, but I'm a bit concerned on the impact to my long run on the following day.


Or am I just whining and all marathon runner are constantly fatigued and I should just try and suck it up as best as I can for the next 13 weeks?

I do know that the week before my last 18-mile run, I ran very little as I was sick, but my legs felt so fresh during that long run, it was great.

I would say the long run is definatley your most important run. I can tell you that I am always tired and I have good stretches of running and bad ones.

A lot depends on what you are trying to do here. Is this your first marathon? Are you just trying to finish the marathon or are you trying to reach a time goal? If you are just trying to finish then you are pushing yourself too hard and forget the speed work. For my first Marathon I didn't even worry about speed work. If it is a hilly course then you will need to get some hill work in as well.

If you are trying to reach a certain time (that is reasonable) then you will need to do speed work, intervals or tempo runs. Everyone has his/her own favorites or must do. I do what I like though and what makes the most sense to me. Different subject though.

Trent, what is your feeling on the same miles per week thought? Currently this is my plan for my 16 weeks for the Columbus marathon but I am starting to think this is not wise.

Oh Derek giving it your all won't be a problem. However, the worst feeling is training for all of these weeks only to start off to fast and fade at the end. Trust me I did this at the Flying pig this past year and I am still mad at myself even though I ran it in 3:52. I should have been much faster. I did have my best half marathon though. I have the same mindset as you do but trust me when I say this, anyone that finishes a marathon has a lot of determination and desire. It takes a lot of dedication to run one.

Anyway, your soreness could be something as simple as the fact that you are running in the morning. I tried this for a few weeks and I hate it. My body needs time to wake up. If I run in the morning my times are a lot slower then when I run at night even though it is alot hotter in the evenings. Everyone is different. How about trying to run 30 - 40 miles a week? According to your log though that would be a step up in your running right now, right?

Quote from derek on 7/5/2007 at 11:59 AM:

Yep.

When starting a marathon training plan, you usually drop WAY back. In your case, this is especially important since one year ago you were not even running.

< TOUGH-LOVE>
You have put your body through hell over the past year and it is finally telling you that enough is enough. So as I see it, you have some choices.

1. drop your miles back and risk going slower that 4 hours at your marathon
2. keep going as you are and risk injury, burnout or overtraining, any of which will keep you from the start line
3. postpone your first marathon until you have 1-3 years of base at 40-60 + miles per week to ensure that you can handle this program
4. use your first marathon as a training exercise to experience what 26.2 miles feels like and shoot for a faster one in the future.

When you say this: "I want to train as hard as I can and run as much as I can without getting injured so that I have the best chance of achieving my goal", you are missing the important point of training for a marathon. Most of your training should not be "hard". There should be bits of hard work couched in lots and lots of easy work. When you "push your body as far as it'll go without breaking", you will exhaust it and it will fail, even if it does not break. This is why your race times are slowing. This is why you are tired. This is why you have had increasing dread about your next run. This is why your heart is racing when you get up in the morning.

No, don't push your body as hard as you can in training. Save this for your races and your occasional speed workout. Use your training period to build a base and experience. Since you have tired yourself, now you need to step back if you hope to succeed.

One more bit of tough love: your last race was in April. It was a 5k. Your pace was 8:08. You need to be doing more racing now, closer to your goal marathon. And with the 8:08 pace, McMillan predicts a marathon time of about 4:05, which in my experience is about 20 minutes faster than most people will actually run off of a 5k prediction.

So, were it me, I would think seriously about options 1 & 4 above.
< /TOUGH-LOVE>

(I would add that your progress over the past year has been incredible, keep it up, but take it easy so that you can continue on into the foreseeable future)

Trent, that is some good tough love.

Derek, it's hard to beat Trent''s advice. I would just add, if you do run some more races, include some halfs. This will give a better predictor of your full marathon finish time. Also, for a point of reference, I am training for my first and am doing 30-40 mpw, and I feel pretty good (I still look forward to my runs). I will be in this range of mileage for the bulk of my training (marathon in November). McMillan is predicting a 4:33 finish for me based on my 2:09 half in April. I set a strecth goal for myself of 4:20 (~10 mpm), but imagine it could take me as long as 4:45. Not really a big deal to me. The main reason I think I can beat the McMillan prediction is because I am losing weight, and will be a lot light by race time. Note that between now and November, I will run a 10 K, and as many as 3 halfs (one in August, one in September, and one in October). These will be good meaures of my progress (plus they're fun).

Modified to add: Here is the plan I am currently following. The pace recommendation are for a 4:20 finish. This came from the coach of the local marathoin training program I am in. The halfs listed in the last column are race I want to add. Note the rest days before and after the long run. I originally didn't like this because it requires running 4 days in a row, but it seems to work well, allowing for sufficent rest before the long run, and recovery afterwards. The shorter runs on Tuesday and Thursday, make the 4 days straight doable.

There is a second phase of the training plan which I won't get until September.

Quote from mikeymike on 7/5/2007 at 1:41 PM:

Thanks everyone for the advice. I will try my revised plan next week and see how I feel at the end.

Trent, I'm not ignoring your advice, but I would rather try reducing my mileage gradually and rearranging my runs for better recovery and see how it goes rather than dropping to under 30 miles in one go. I may well end up there eventually, but I'd like to try some other options first.

Derek

Well, the Pfitz program may be a bit much at the moment, but I would definitely suggest going back to it in the future. I've used a couple of Pfitz's plans in the past, and I felt like they got me into great marathon shape. I think the mid-week ML run is a very important aspect of training that you don't necessarily find in other marathon training programs.

I definitely agree with what others have said about running your first marathon in order to just gain respect for the distance. The marathon can be a terrible experience if you go out at a pace you cannot sustain...

However, if you want to run as fast as you can, I would suggest running a few half marathon races before the marathon to get a better idea of what sort of time you might be able to get (double the half time plus ten minutes). Don't set 4 hours as the race day goal until you know what sort of shape you're able to get yourself into at this point in your running life. Doing a half about 4 weeks out will give you a really good idea about what to expect.

If you switch over to the new plan you suggested make sure to introduce some more quality runs (tempo, intervals, pace) as the race nears. Even if that means sacrificing miles on the LR, some good quality runs will pay major dividends on race day.