RunningAHEAD - Topic: Power Running Physiology Enters the Mainstream (page 5)

spaniel

Feeling the growl again

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:43 AM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/10/2008 at 9:38 AM:

IMO, the 2 best studies on the topic are a marathon study by Dolgener et al: Dolgener, F., Kolkhorst, F., Whitsett, D.: Long Slow Distance Training in Novice Marathoners: Res Q Exer Sci; 1994; 65(4); 339-346 and a 2 years study on cross counry skiiers by Gaskill et al. Gaskill, S., Serfass, R., Bacharach, D., Kelly, J., Responses to training in cross-country skiers, Med Sci Sports Exerc, 1999, 31(8), 1211-1217 I would also point you to the classic work of Hickson in the series of studies he conducted comparing the effects of changes in frequency, intensity, duration, specificity, and volume. For those who don't have access to the full text studies, here are my reviews of them: http://powerrunning.com/Training/Does%20increasing%20mileage%20make%20for%20a%20faster%20marathon.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/Base%20building%20vs%20High%20intensity.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/Easy%20Runs%20and%20Recovery.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/A%20comparison%20of%20the%20five%20training%20elements.htm

So if we can't access the full text...take your word for it that you are right in your interpretations? Ha! Perhaps I need to go through my archives of "The Best of Dick" on my home computer. Posting a full page of your about-faces and back-pedaling would make much more interesting reading than your new drool here.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

JimR

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:51 AM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/10/2008 at 9:38 AM:

http://powerrunning.com/Training/Does%20increasing%20mileage%20make%20for%20a%20faster%20marathon.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/Base%20building%20vs%20High%20intensity.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/Easy%20Runs%20and%20Recovery.htm http://powerrunning.com/Training/A%20comparison%20of%20the%20five%20training%20elements.htm

Webhits. told ya'll so

JakeKnight

posted: 10/10/2008 at 9:56 AM

Quote from spaniel on 10/10/2008 at 9:43 AM:

Perhaps I need to go through my archives of "The Best of Dick" on my home computer. Posting a full page of your about-faces and back-pedaling would make much more interesting reading than your new drool here.

That would indeed be more entertaining. Although I'd settle for something easier: like "what's your marathon PR?" Or "how's the improvement in your 5k coming?" Or "who have you coached lately?" Or maybe we could all just ignore him. Like I should have done, after reading JimR's earlier remarks. Because you really should listen to people with giant swollen lips. Ask Angelina Jolie.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
-----------------------------

Scout7

posted: 10/10/2008 at 10:04 AM

Here's the disconnect. I don't give a rat's behind about physiology. I know what works for me, I've been trying different things for a while. I don't care if VO2Max is meaningful, or if I improve my LT by doing a specific run, or if I am working individual muscle fibers when I go do a tough hill workout. I DO know that by running a bunch of miles and incorporating different intensities, I improve. ooooooo..... Science is fun. Hey, Rich, I should introduce you to my theories. It's called Chia Running. We even had a website for a while, but it got hosed by some douchebag, not that I'll point fingers at any llamas or anything.

spaniel

Feeling the growl again

posted: 10/10/2008 at 10:04 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 10/10/2008 at 9:56 AM:

That would indeed be more entertaining. Although I'd settle for something easier: like "what's your marathon PR?" Or "how's the improvement in your 5k coming?" Or "who have you coached lately?" Or maybe we could all just ignore him. Like I should have done, after reading JimR's earlier remarks. Because you really should listen to people with giant swollen lips. Ask Angelina Jolie.

Those questions have been asked...all he could produce for having coached anybody with this system was some Army guy who ran like 10:3X for two miles. Something a whole ton of high school boys can do on virtually no training or clearly dysfunctional training. Giant swollen lips? Angelina Jolie? You may not want to listen to them, but you could tell them to.... I'll self-censor this one. But it was sooo fitting on both accounts.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

MrFinn

Prince of Fatness

posted: 10/10/2008 at 10:40 AM
modified: 10/17/2008 at 10:11 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 10/14/2008 at 8:45 AM:

Ugh. This thread makes my brain bleed.

Not at it at all.

Save Cheevers

posted: 10/10/2008 at 10:50 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 10/10/2008 at 9:56 AM:

That would indeed be more entertaining. Although I'd settle for something easier: like "what's your marathon PR?" Or "how's the improvement in your 5k coming?" Or "who have you coached lately?" Or maybe we could all just ignore him. Like I should have done, after reading JimR's earlier remarks. Because you really should listen to people with giant swollen lips. Ask Angelina Jolie.

Oh now it's all coming back to me. Let's see, Richard, have you improved on your 32 minute 5k or that smoking 57-minute 10k? Not that these are bad times for some recreational runners, but how has that power running worked out for you? I don't recall any big jumps in your times. I suppose most of the running world is on to you, but for any poor schmo who enjoyed the candor and good advice on Running Ahead while you were off trolling LetsRun and CoolRunning, big Dick is a voice that should be ignored.

Rich_

posted: 10/10/2008 at 11:45 AM

Quote from Viich on 10/9/2008 at 11:13 PM:

So essentially, you don't see any difference in training to what most coaches recommend. I still don't see where the ground breaking part is Richard. Never have with this power running bit.

Viich, As I noted earlier, I've never thought my training recommendations were particularly radical but some folks really get bent out of shape about them and the research data supporting them. You can see clear evidence of that in the last 2 pages of this thread.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

Scout7

posted: 10/10/2008 at 11:50 AM

So if it's not very radical, and really doesn't change the way people train, why tell us about it?

Minderbender

posted: 10/10/2008 at 11:52 AM

Quote from Scout7 on 10/10/2008 at 8:31 AM:

I'm pretty sure I use my muscles every time I run. Even on easy runs.

Then you are doing it right. Everyone who isn't using their muscles to run should change tactics immediately.

Rich_

posted: 10/10/2008 at 12:07 PM
modified: 10/10/2008 at 12:08 PM

Quote from Scout7 on 10/10/2008 at 11:50 AM:

So if it's not very radical, and really doesn't change the way people train, why tell us about it?

I didn't say there were no differences; I said the differences weren't particularly radical. But certainly not so different as to justify the level of angst being demonstrated by some here. IMO the differences are simply a refinement of standard training and can improve the performance for those of average talents - that's why I have posted them /told you about it.

Rich World's Fastest Slow Runner

greenrunning

posted: 10/10/2008 at 12:14 PM

I also have training methods that various studies show to be effective. One of my students improved her 5k times dramatically after 18 weeks of this -

Bonkin

posted: 10/10/2008 at 12:17 PM

Quote from Rich_ on 10/10/2008 at 12:07 PM:

I didn't say there were no differences; I said the differences weren't particularly radical. But certainly not so different as to justify the level of angst being demonstrated by some here. IMO the differences are simply a refinement of standard training and can improve the performance for those of average talents - that's why I have posted them /told you about it.

I don't think you are getting the angst because of your idea. You are getting it because you make a lot of claims against the "old" way with no proof and you make a lot of unsubstantiated claims of your way providing improvements. When asked for evidence, you provide YOUR summaries of research. Show real evidence and the angst will recede.

When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

Gopher Snail

posted: 10/10/2008 at 12:30 PM
modified: 10/13/2008 at 6:37 PM

greenrunning

posted: 10/10/2008 at 12:55 PM

Quote from spaniel on 10/10/2008 at 9:43 AM:

Perhaps I need to go through my archives of "The Best of Dick" on my home computer.

Nice.

Power Running Physiology Enters the Mainstream (Read 2197 times)