123

Runner collapese and dies in 10K (Read 1850 times)


Imminent Catastrophe

    "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

     "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

    "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

     

    √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

    Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

    Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014


    Feeling the growl again

      Very sad.  Not that old, either.

       

      It does seem to happen predominately at or near the finish line, doesn't it?

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        In response to Spaniel's post and question, I also find it interesting that for triathlon's, it's the swim portion where people die (beginning of race), while for a marathon (and other running races), it's the final 1/4 mile.  I don't know why, I just find it somewhat interesting the differences between the 2 sports.

         

        From 2006 - 2008, 13 of 14 deaths were during the swim

        http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=triathlon-death-swimming

        I read somewhere the same type of ratios for 2011 triathlons as well.

        2014 Goals:

        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

         

          Tragic. It's not just the marathon.

          Yes, sad indeed.  But, where I'm coming from, I have to wonder what kind of preparation he had done...  It just sticks to me when Arthur Lydiard said that he had "never killed anyone; Bowerman never killed anyone..."  Today, we have such wide varieties of people running; men and women, young and old...  Some say that the kind of people who are running today are completely different from back in 1960s and 70s.  But I still can't help but wonder...  Remember, Lydiard had a group of 20 people in 1961, the youngest was 50 and the oldest was 74.  ALL OF THEM had a history of at least one heart attack.  Some of them grossly overweight (nearly 250~300 pounds), none of them could run 200m, that's a half a lap around the track, without stopping at first.  Eight months later, ALL OF THEM were running 20 miles WITHOUT STOPPING.  They've GOT to be doing something right.

           

          I'd be really curious to know what kind of training he was doing; what time he was running this particular 10k in, what his "normal", if he's a regular competitor, time he was running 10k in; whether he was sprinting at the end..., etc.  I wish NYT people would look in to the matter more deeply like that but I know they won't.  Next headline would be: "running, not just marathon, can be fatal!!"  

           

          Actually, that's pretty much the title of this link, isn't it?  You do realize, Professor, running all-out mile can be probably even more stressful to your heart than a marathon???  It's actually interesting, as popular as marathon AND science are today, I really don't think people understand the mechanism of running and human physiology in such a basic level...


          Petco Run/Walk/Wag 5k

            I used to live near Marietta, GA and am wondering what the course was near the finish line. It can be a very hilly course depending on what route they chose. Not sure how that might have affected the runner if all prep was done on dreadmills with little real hill training. Would sure like more information... sigh

            bob e v
            2014 goals: keep on running! Is there anything more than that?

            Complete the last 3 races in the Austin Distance Challenge, Rogue 30k, 3M Half, Austin Full

            Break the 1000 mi barrier!

            History: blessed heart attack 3/15/2008; c25k july 2008 first 5k 10/26/2008 on 62nd birthday.


            Imminent Catastrophe

              My hunch is that it's related to heart rate, as it generally peaks at or near the finish line, of any distance.

              Nobby, yes I realize that. The point is that when it happens in a marathon it makes headlines and people start saying "tsk, tsk, marathons are dangerous!" but if it happens at a 10k there's not nearly the hand-wringing. A friend of a friend of mine dropped at the finish of a Half Marathon.

              "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

               "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

              "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

               

              √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

              Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

              Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014


              A Saucy Wench

                In response to Spaniel's post and question, I also find it interesting that for triathlon's, it's the swim portion where people die (beginning of race), while for a marathon (and other running races), it's the final 1/4 mile.  I don't know why, I just find it somewhat interesting the differences between the 2 sports.

                 

                From 2006 - 2008, 13 of 14 deaths were during the swim

                http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=triathlon-death-swimming

                I read somewhere the same type of ratios for 2011 triathlons as well.

                 That doesnt surprise me at all.  Some of the triathlon starts are in bloody cold water and if you havent prepped for that the shock can be hard on your heart plus the crowded start is panic inducing.

                I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                 

                "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  Yes, sad indeed.  But, where I'm coming from, I have to wonder what kind of preparation he had done...

                   

                  With enough people running a lot of the time, maybe it isn't always going to be the dead runner's fault...

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                  Imminent Catastrophe

                     That doesnt surprise me at all.  Some of the triathlon starts are in bloody cold water and if you havent prepped for that the shock can be hard on your heart plus the crowded start is panic inducing.

                     

                    Could it have something to do with vasoconstriction in the cold water? That's what they say about people who have heart attacks while shoveling snow.

                    "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                     "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                    "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                     

                    √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

                    Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

                    Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014

                      If this statement is true then any kind of heavy exertion could have killed him. Of course running will get the blame.

                       

                       

                      “It was a heart attack caused by a heart condition he didn’t even know he had,” Anderson said. “The doctors told her he could have been in a car driving. He  crossed the finish line and that was it.”

                       

                      RIP´╗┐

                      2013

                      3000 miles

                      Sub 19:00 for 5K  05-03-13 Clee Prom 5K - 19:00:66 that was bloody close!

                      Sub-40:00 for 10K 17-03-13 Gainsborough 10K - 39:43

                      Sub 88:00 for HM

                       


                      just a simple cat

                        It always seems to be only men............

                         

                        I  guess as you get more bodacious, you begin to lose more brain cells, because there is a limit to how much magnificence your body can house


                        Needs more cowbell!

                          It always seems to be only men............

                           

                          They should just stop running.  Then women won't have to find women-only races in order to set world records...

                          I shoot pretty things! ~

                          '14 Goals:

                          • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                             That doesnt surprise me at all.  Some of the triathlon starts are in bloody cold water and if you havent prepped for that the shock can be hard on your heart plus the crowded start is panic inducing.

                             

                            It doesn't surprise me that people die in the water.  What does surprise me is that there aren't people at the end of the races that die.  It seems like it's mostly water deaths.

                             

                            (I agree with the troubles for them in the cold water, crowded starts, restricted wet suits, etc.)

                            2014 Goals:

                            #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                            #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                             

                              Yes, sad indeed.  But, where I'm coming from, I have to wonder what kind of preparation he had done...  It just sticks to me when Arthur Lydiard said that he had "never killed anyone; Bowerman never killed anyone..."  Today, we have such wide varieties of people running; men and women, young and old...  Some say that the kind of people who are running today are completely different from back in 1960s and 70s.  But I still can't help but wonder...  Remember, Lydiard had a group of 20 people in 1961, the youngest was 50 and the oldest was 74.  ALL OF THEM had a history of at least one heart attack.  Some of them grossly overweight (nearly 250~300 pounds), none of them could run 200m, that's a half a lap around the track, without stopping at first.  Eight months later, ALL OF THEM were running 20 miles WITHOUT STOPPING.  They've GOT to be doing something right.

                               

                               While Lydiard certainly accomplished a lot with these runners, I don't think a sample size of 20 is enough to make a meaningful statement about his training methods and "running related" deaths. This race, for example, had 10,000 participants and the fact that 1 died is seen as remarkable.

                              Maybe I am nitpicking and missing your point.

                                 While Lydiard certainly accomplished a lot with these runners, I don't think a sample size of 20 is enough to make a meaningful statement about his training methods and "running related" deaths. This race, for example, had 10,000 participants and the fact that 1 died is seen as remarkable.

                                Maybe I am nitpicking and missing your point.

                                No, you are not nitpicking; it's certainly a legit comment.  However, I'd still say that I'm right based on my experience; I'd get horrified to here people running 4 hours over the weekend, preparing for a marathon, while their HR is 180+.  Looking at the way many people "train" these days, I'd have to say the way Lydiard, or Bowerman, did makes a lot more physiological sense.  Lydiard had his "runners", or original "joggers", to "exercise" 7 days a week, or at least 6.  He had them do 15-minutes of running, working their way up gradually.  Today, we are so concerned about going very far so they take frequent walking break instead of running continuously.  People are so concerned about getting injured if you run too much, though they don't' see to understand what "too much" is, and they only run 3 times a week.  Even worse, they focus too much on quality workouts than nice long slow endurance workout.  It was way back in 1940s already that some doctors and physiologists were saying that interval-trained (quality training) heart seems to be smaller than endurance-trained athletes.  In other words, they pump vigorously but their heart wall didn't get thicker, or in other words, stronger.  

                                 

                                I believe there's the right way to train and there are wrong ways to prepare too.  I'm not saying this guy trained wrongly and, therefore, paid for it and died.  I'm not saying if you trained "wrongly", you'll die.  I'm saying if you didn't prepare yourself correctly, the risk of hurting yourself is higher.  If the sample size of 20 is not sufficient, let me remind you that that was the number of people Lydiard FIRST engaged.  He had since "coached" thousands of people.  Bowerman's first jogging class drew 2000 people and his "jogging" class went on and on and on, with him "coaching" thousands of people.  Today, with so much information available, fitness club and running groups all over the place, with all these on-line training program available with so-called "guru" providing various programs, particularly in the last few years, it seems that a lot more people are getting in trouble than, say, back in 1980s or 1990s.  Why is that?  We have HR monitor and Garmin to give us so much more information than 10 years ago.  I don't recall hearing so many people drop dead while running a road race 10 years ago.  Is it just me who wonder?  Or is running really that risky as some newspaper articles may portray?  Also, bear in mind, if you missed my point, those ORIGINAL 20 people were ALL heart disease patients.  Not those "well-trained" people.  If you take THAT into consideration, I'd say the number is pretty staggering.  Also, consider the fact that these guys turned their attention to running a full marathon (8 of these original 20 people) and they ran a full marathon in "around 4-hours".  Again, the youngest was 50 and the oldest was 74.  Is this number still so very small that you might way this is "fluke"?

                                123