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WHY do long, slow runs help improve pace? (Read 569 times)

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    Seilerts, that Mcmillan article on benefits of the long, carb deprived run was exceptional!   Thank you for posting.

    The Plan '15 edition (big parts)→  /// April '15:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  (Goal: >80.1+Miles)  ///   Run streak, at least a mile every single day for 365.  ∞

      So, it isn't either/or with high mileage running.  If you do it wisely, you benefit far more than endurance, you also improve your speed over distance.

       

      What's the difference between "endurance" and "speed over distance"?

        I would say that endurance is strictly the ability to go a certain distance, say 25 miles, it might take 5 hours, but you can do it.

         

        Increasing your speed over distance would be running for a shorter distance than you are capable of, but at a faster pace.  i.e. running 13.1 miles in 1 hour and 50 minutes instead of 2 hours.

        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

        Blaf


           

          This NON-STOP thing has been bugging me for months! What about signal lights, stopping at water fountains etc.? I try to minimize these stops on my runs, but I can't eliminate them altogether.

           

          This has been bugging me too. The group I run with stops every 5-6 km for a drink. The breaks are 1-2 minutes. I am sure that my heart rate goes down during this time.

           

          Do I get benefit from those long runs? Would I benefit more if we do not stop at all? Or it does not matter?

          For example, yesterday we ran 32km, we had 5 stops to drink and take gel. Someone drives around before the run and leaves water canisters at certain points.

            I would say that endurance is strictly the ability to go a certain distance, say 25 miles, it might take 5 hours, but you can do it.

             

            Increasing your speed over distance would be running for a shorter distance than you are capable of, but at a faster pace.  i.e. running 13.1 miles in 1 hour and 50 minutes instead of 2 hours.

             

            I still think these are the same thing. Anyone can go 25 miles (and actually HAS already gone 25 miles) if we disregard the time interval.

            Blaf


              Speed over distance would be stamina = ability to keep a pace for a longer time.

                Think of it this way: if you extend your capacity to run a certain pace from 15 miles to 20 miles, this is exactly the same thing as saying that you could cover 15 miles in less time than you could before.

                   

                  I still think these are the same thing. Anyone can go 25 miles (and actually HAS already gone 25 miles) if we disregard the time interval.

                   

                  I agree. I don't think of endurance as how FAR you can go but rather how little or how much you need to slow down (from say mile pace as a reference) to maintain a managable racing speed over a longer distance.

                     

                    This has been bugging me too. The group I run with stops every 5-6 km for a drink. The breaks are 1-2 minutes. I am sure that my heart rate goes down during this time.

                     

                    Do I get benefit from those long runs? Would I benefit more if we do not stop at all? Or it does not matter?

                    For example, yesterday we ran 32km, we had 5 stops to drink and take gel. Someone drives around before the run and leaves water canisters at certain points.

                     

                    I'm sure you get some benefit.

                     

                    Running with people is great, but I also believe that you need to do at least some of your long runs alone. You need to practice making decisions about pace trying to stick to them it's pretty much impossible with a group even people - often even with one other.

                     

                    But there's more than one way to skin a cat. For example I wanted to do 18 or 19km yesterday, with at least some of it at a reasonable pace; but my wife wanted to do about 10k and she's quite a bit slower than me. So I jogged round for ~9km with her and then peeled off and did another 9km on my own at a faster pace.

                     

                    On the water thing: If a run is long enough to need water I just take a water bottle in a belt designed to carry one. But people get too hung up on the need to drink. Unless it's pretty hot anyone can run for a couple of hours without needing to drink, so long as you're reasonably hydrated at the outset.

                       

                      This has been bugging me too. The group I run with stops every 5-6 km for a drink. The breaks are 1-2 minutes. I am sure that my heart rate goes down during this time.

                       

                      Do I get benefit from those long runs? Would I benefit more if we do not stop at all? Or it does not matter?

                      For example, yesterday we ran 32km, we had 5 stops to drink and take gel. Someone drives around before the run and leaves water canisters at certain points.

                      I don't think a 20 or 30 second stop once or twice in 32km will affect anything but 1 to 2 minutes every 5K seems very much excessive'.  Your HR most definitely will go down in 1 to 2 minutes, not that that is what I think is the negative aspect.   I think you're training yourself to need to take a break every 3 miles.   Personally, I would find a different group to train with unless they cut down the frequency and duration of those breaks.

                        I don't think a 20 or 30 second stop once or twice in 32km will affect anything but 1 to 2 minutes every 5K seems very much excessive'.  Your HR most definitely will go down in 1 to 2 minutes, not that that is what I think is the negative aspect.   I think you're training yourself to need to take a break every 3 miles.   Personally, I would find a different group to train with unless they cut down the frequency and duration of those breaks.

                         

                        Agreed. Plus, who needs that much water; are you kidding me?

                          Is "water canisters" code? 1-2 minutes for a drink. Everyone has to pound a beer every 5km?

                          carolynlaitsch


                          gramapower

                            I am working with a trainer from the Jack  Daniels training program.  She has me running my long runs at a easy pace but always running the last few miles faster.  That prepares me for my marathon pace and also trains my mind and body to run harder on tired legs.  After a few months it has become a habit and is much easier.

                            carolynlaitsch


                            I'm back!

                               ---I have a question:  If I am personally training towards 24-hour length races, should a bunch of my training and long runs be done WITHOUT refueling in order to improve my body's addaptive ability to burn fat and also stimulate the muscles to store more glycogen as you described?   (And Fueling will be certainly required on a 24-hour type of race of course, but wondering if the best prep for that is to do alot of running without fuel to prepare my body better?)

                              To run 24 hours, the biggest thing you have to worry about, nutrition-wise, is how to effectively take in the calories you will need on the run. This is something you will need to practice, either in training runs, or, better, in say 6- or 12-hour races.

                               

                              Yes, it's also important to maximize your ability to burn fat and to store glycogen (and to start your ultra carb loaded – so many ultra runners seem to ignore this), but none of that will matter if you can't get the calories in without puking after 6, 8, 14, hours. You'll be done.

                                 

                                This is totally off subject, but I checked out your log and it is the most colorful log I have ever seen.

                                ”Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.”

                                “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.”

                                 

                                Tomas

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