Goal of sub 17 minute 5k (Read 8206 times)

    Not that I have any business being on this thread but I just wanted to throw some props your way, Diamond J.  Way to go.

     

    +1.  Your progress has been very impressive recently, everything has definitely come together in the last couple of races!

      Thanks guys, but I really owe a lot to Nobby and especially spaniel.  I still have to more goals to conquer this year, then I can start planning out 2011!

      Goals for 2013: sub 18 5K; stay healthy

        I have no illusions of running sub-17:00 this year but will try another 5k on 11/21. Three-plus weeks to do something. To PR (17:3x) would be nice but it's more to set a benchmark for 2011.

         

        If I can shape up I'd like to make a real go at a track 5000m in June-July 2011.

         

        Just putting it out there.

          Thanks for bumping this, roots.

           

          I thought I had a real chance to do it this year.  Turns out my 17:08 from August was as close as I got.  I think I was in shape for it a couple of times and I made one last attempt the Sunday before Baystate but the course wasn't all that fast and I wound up going 17:15.  I was close though, the 2nd mile had a lot of turns and a couple of hills and that pretty much killed me but I finished with a 5:28 mile.  I think on a fast course I would have been right around 17 and on the track I think I could have crushed it.  Woulda coulda shoulda.

           

          So barring a miracle in November or December, it looks like this will be my one and only goal for 2011, now that I've sworn off marathons.  I'm confident I can get it done next year.  I'd better since at 41 I'm probably getting pretty close to now or never time.

           

          I'm taking some recovery time and then I'll start to think about how to finally get this done.

          Runners run.

            Thanks for bumping this, roots.

             

            I thought I had a real chance to do it this year.  Turns out my 17:08 from August was as close as I got.  I think I was in shape for it a couple of times and I made one last attempt the Sunday before Baystate but the course wasn't all that fast and I wound up going 17:15.  I was close though, the 2nd mile had a lot of turns and a couple of hills and that pretty much killed me but I finished with a 5:28 mile.  I think on a fast course I would have been right around 17 and on the track I think I could have crushed it.  Woulda coulda shoulda.

             

            So barring a miracle in November or December, it looks like this will be my one and only goal for 2011, now that I've sworn off marathons.  I'm confident I can get it done next year.  I'd better since at 41 I'm probably getting pretty close to now or never time.

             

            I'm taking some recovery time and then I'll start to think about how to finally get this done.

             

             

            Curious Mikey - how much faster do you think a track is vs. a fast road course?

             

            Good luck with the next big goal. You are right there knocking on the door.

              Not that I'm anywhere close to sub-17, but I have sprinkled in a bit of quality work over the last 14 days and will go for a 5k PR next weekend. (PR is 17:37) At the very least I will set the bar for the next time.

               

              There is an indoor 5000 (300m track) in late January that I have circled as the next try. But in reality, it will be next summer when I might significantly lower the 5k PR. My wife signed us up for the Boston Marathon so there's that distraction in spring.

                 

                 

                Curious Mikey - how much faster do you think a track is vs. a fast road course?

                 

                I dunno, I've never raced a 5000 on the track but conventional wisdom seems to be 1-2 seconds per lap, or ~15 seconds or so.

                Runners run.

                   

                  I dunno, I've never raced a 5000 on the track but conventional wisdom seems to be 1-2 seconds per lap, or ~15 seconds or so.

                   I've found the opposite to be true for me.  If I run a road race on flat roads with good footing, I will be a little faster than on a track.  Mostly because on a track I have to turn every 100 meters.  This may effect me more because I am a larger runner, but when I get a nice 3/4 to 1 mile stretch of straight flat pavement, I can move pretty good.

                  Thank you for taking the time to read my signature!

                    I'll second what Rick said about the track 5000m not seeming to be 'faster' than a certified, flat road 5K.  I've run 5 track 5000's since my newfound love of racing and my PR progression at the distance always came on road courses - except for the last track race.  Finally set a PR on the track.  I think I've finally come to grips with how to approach a track race.

                    I think, in my case, it's more of a mental issue of KNOWING you have to endure 12 and a half laps of THIS pace, then 11 and a half, then 10 and a half etc.  On a road course I could focus on the 1st mile, 2nd mile and then I'm coming home so turn it on.

                      For me, the track is about 20 seconds faster. I agree that the track can be mentally challenging, and likely I can run faster there because have a good deal of experience racing on the track.

                       

                      There's nowhere to hide out there. That can be thrilling or demoralizing.

                        When I ran the 10K it was a little daunting after you get a little tired to see that there are still 14 laps left.  I actually find the breakdown of the laps to be helpful in the 5K.  The first time I broke 17 was on a track and I watched the timer on the scoreboard the last 100 meters of every lap. 

                         

                         My PR is on the track for both events, but mostly because when I was in my best shape I only ran on the track.  There are just too many factors really, like the condition of the track, wind, level of competition, to say one is better than the other.  It seems to be personal preference.

                        Thank you for taking the time to read my signature!

                          When I ran the 10K it was a little daunting after you get a little tired to see that there are still 14 laps left.  I actually find the breakdown of the laps to be helpful in the 5K.  The first time I broke 17 was on a track and I watched the timer on the scoreboard the last 100 meters of every lap.

                           

                           My PR is on the track for both events, but mostly because when I was in my best shape I only ran on the track.  There are just too many factors really, like the condition of the track, wind, level of competition, to say one is better than the other.  It seems to be personal preference.

                           

                          I think your prior track experience must be a lot of the difference in between you and I (as well as massive talent gap).

                           

                          I'm starting to get that feeling now.  I ran a World Record (felt that way to me anyway!) 1500m in 4:55 in August and hitting paces and counting off the laps just gave me more confidence as I went round the track.  Going under 5 minutes at that race was huge for me.  I'm starting to 'feel' the track much better than before and I'm looking forward to the winter meets starting in January.  Having never run track or XC in HS it's taking me a long time to feel comfortable there but, damn, I really enjoy it.

                             

                            I dunno, I've never raced a 5000 on the track but conventional wisdom seems to be 1-2 seconds per lap, or ~15 seconds or so.

                             

                             

                            For me, the track is about 20 seconds faster. I agree that the track can be mentally challenging, and likely I can run faster there because have a good deal of experience racing on the track.

                             

                            There's nowhere to hide out there. That can be thrilling or demoralizing.

                             

                            Track is 12-20 seconds faster, huh? So...one could conclude that the Thunder's 17:09 was a 17:25-ish effort on roads. Hmm.

                               

                               

                               

                              Track is 12-20 seconds faster, huh? So...one could conclude that the Thunder's 17:09 was a 17:25-ish effort on roads. Hmm.

                               

                              No. I don't think one could conclude that.  The 12-20 seconds is an average if you look at the PRs of populations of runners with a lot of experience running on both the roads and the track.  There are individual differences as Rick and Ken note above.  And that was, I think, Thunder's first ever track 5000.

                               

                              So maybe what we should conclude is that I was talking out of my ass when I said above, "on the track I think I could have crushed it."  I've never raced longer than a mile on the track and while I do a fair amount of workouts on the track and feel comfortable in that environment, racing 12.5 laps out there would (or will) be uncharted territory for me.

                               

                              What we know is this: my fastest road 5k this year was 17:08.  That was 14 seconds faster than my fastest 5k from 2009, 46 seconds faster than my fastest from 2007 and my fastest since 2004 before I took a 2 year hiatus from running.

                               

                              As I wrote in the OP to this thread, in 2004 I ran 17:00.0 for 5k and then shortly after that took 2 years off from training and racing.  Since I started up in the spring of 2006, my 5k progression has been:

                               

                              2006

                              18:14 -- 10/26

                               

                              2007

                              17:59 -- 5/27

                              17:49 -- 7/8

                              17:57 -- 11/17 (4 weeks post marathon)

                               

                              2008

                              17:55 -- 5/25

                               

                              2009

                              17:38 -- 4/7

                              17:27 -- 5/24

                              17:22 -- 7/12

                              17:58 -- 11/7 (3 weeks post marathon)

                               

                              2010

                              18:07 -- 5/30 (recovering from a serious bout of bronchitis)

                              17:40 -- 7/11

                              17:08 -- 8/1

                              17:18 -- 9/12

                              17:15 -- 10/10

                               

                              Sure there have been some ups and downs but the trend is good, and nearly all of that time I was either recovering from or building for marathons.  I think I can find 9 seconds next year if I'm not racing any marathons.  Time will tell.

                              Runners run.

                                I've found that I usually give my best performances in races where I have no shot at winning and there is a lot of talent there. The first time I broke 17 was at a really fast (but certified!) course with some of the best runners in Maine. I think, like 11 guys went under 17 that day, and my 16:44 was good for 9th. For those of you who are on the brink, I say find one of these races, latch on to a guy that's going a tad faster than the pace you want, hang on, and then try to outkick him at the end!

                                Goals for 2013: sub 18 5K; stay healthy