Forums >Racing>Goal of sub 20 5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjGtyNhSF3U
Footage from my race.
I can be seen running at the 2:13 to 2:35 mark just before the mile point.
Also at 4:42 - 4:55 at the 2 mile mark.
And finishing at 5:46- 5:55.
Otherwise just a lot of boring video for most of you lol.
I've got a fever...
I think you are right, I would really benefit from higher milage. I am pretty sure if I was able to run 40/50mpw I would be crushing 20:00. However, I have been really really slow increasing milage because it's always been high milage thats injured me, not speed workouts. In fact, I hadn't run in 5 years because I could never get milage above 10mpw anymore without huge IT Band pain. Also, I have gotten stress fractures whenever I increase my distance to fast, so I'd rather take a year to get to 30mpw, and another to 40/50, then get hurt. Also, I have found nike frees, and those helped a little with leg pain. However, over the last month or two I have transitioned to the radical Vibram Five Fingers (shoes that mimic barefoot running). They shouldn't work according to modern theory because I am bow legged, low arched, my right leg turns out, etc. But they do! I have been slowly adding millage on those. They have totally changed my running form from heel-toe to midfoot/forefoot. And in response much of my leg pain has subsided. At first I had the worst soreness in my calves of my life, but now it almost feels natural running with them. But I also want to increase my millage slow so I don't stress fracture my feet, since they are no longer padded by running shoes
I think you are right, I would really benefit from higher milage. I am pretty sure if I was able to run 40/50mpw I would be crushing 20:00.
However, I have been really really slow increasing milage because it's always been high milage thats injured me, not speed workouts. In fact, I hadn't run in 5 years because I could never get milage above 10mpw anymore without huge IT Band pain. Also, I have gotten stress fractures whenever I increase my distance to fast, so I'd rather take a year to get to 30mpw, and another to 40/50, then get hurt.
Also, I have found nike frees, and those helped a little with leg pain. However, over the last month or two I have transitioned to the radical Vibram Five Fingers (shoes that mimic barefoot running). They shouldn't work according to modern theory because I am bow legged, low arched, my right leg turns out, etc. But they do! I have been slowly adding millage on those. They have totally changed my running form from heel-toe to midfoot/forefoot. And in response much of my leg pain has subsided. At first I had the worst soreness in my calves of my life, but now it almost feels natural running with them. But I also want to increase my millage slow so I don't stress fracture my feet, since they are no longer padded by running shoes
Without being able to see your log, it's hard to diagnose your issues. (I know it's dead simple to enter a number or two in Excel, but the log here is a much richer experience than a spreadsheet. Also, if you get a Garmin, GPS data upload rocks). But I have a hunch.
You run too fast most of the time. Just a guess, but here's what I know so far:
Sounds familiar to me because I've lived it. Running your easy miles at a faster pace than your body is ready for is bad news. Also, running intervals with no base could easily lead to soreness and ITBS because:
You'll have to figure out the shoe/barefoot thing, but the main thing is to ditch the intervals, and run nothing but slow easy miles for a while. How slow? Plugging your most recent race (21:39 5k -- which wasn't ideal b/c of no warm-up, but it'll do) into a running calculator yields an easy/long pace of 9:13/mi. I look at that as a cap -- run no faster than that on your easy days. And at this point, every day is an easy day.
Also, as a side note the I-pace (interval) for 1000m is 4:14 (from the calculator). Now, you ran 1k intervals in under 4-minutes (probably being able to gut these out with your natural speed) doing what is a workout to boost your high aerobic capacity (i.e. VO2max). The thing is, you don't get anymore VO2max boost running at 110% of capacity than you do running at 100% capacity. And the faster pace trashes your legs more.
On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.
I kind of just lurk on this thread and when get 22:00 will officially throw my hat in. Last 5k was 22:47 in May, but with training this cycle and cool fall/winter weather I hope to get down in the 21:'s by end of year and shoot for the sub 20 next year.
Hey Buckeye, why not come Downtown this weekend for the 5k to support ovarian cancer research/prevention and break that 22 mark?
Over 1,000 runners/walkers last year. I wasn't there last year because I wasn't running yet, but it looks like a great event. Starts at the Rock Hall, goes around Browns stadium, a bit through the city and back to the lakefront and Rock Hall.
If interested you can check it out on the Hermes Cleveland website.
There is nothing to see here.
Move along.
Arrogant Bastard....Ale
No workout? You have a lot of mileage on your log. Referring to speed work?
Yeah, speed work. My long runs and my 10-12 milers I consider workouts but they have all been at slow pace lately. I haven't run more than 1 mile faster than 7:45 in a long time (other than my half marathon and that was a fiasco).
Hey Buckeye, why not come Downtown this weekend for the 5k to support ovarian cancer research/prevention and break that 22 mark? Over 1,000 runners/walkers last year. I wasn't there last year because I wasn't running yet, but it looks like a great event. Starts at the Rock Hall, goes around Browns stadium, a bit through the city and back to the lakefront and Rock Hall. If interested you can check it out on the Hermes Cleveland website.
Thanks for info sounds like fun and good cause ... Will actually be in TN for a wedding this weekend. And really if was home would be running an 18 miler getting ready for fall marathon, when coming down the homestretch of marathon cycle hard to sacrafice a sunday longrun for a short race.
Just like Spring, i switched to 5k /10k mode for 1 - 2 months and dropped 5k time from usually > 25 to 22:47 with no 5k /speed training what so ever. The fall cycle is going even better so who knows, but probably will run a 5k untilthe race thats the day of OSU / michigan game (tailgate 5k or something on the Hermes site). Mid November should be prime for blasting a 5K. would love to find a local 5k 2 weeks after 10/18 marathon as that worked out good for my Spring PR.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it Great!
Congrats on getting 2nd on a tough course!
I might give CC a try some time later. I think the club that I joined recently has several teams. May be I can get onto a slower team and run some CC for fun
I ran a 5k yesterday at my old high school. It was the alumni team against the current high school team. Only 2 high school members showed up and 6 alumni. The temp was about 63 degrees at the start great August weather in Michigan. It had rained and made the ground soft.The course was through wooded trails and had about a dozen steep hills to climb. I realized then that the race was a fun run and set my goal at 22 minutes. The gun went off and I raced across the soccer field. Both high school runners took off like they were shot from a cannon. Another 50 year old led me and my sister was close behind me. I turned and said "Slow down you are going too fast" to my sister. Into the woods and the 1st half mile was not bad - mostly downhills. I gained on the 50 year old runner and caught him at half mile. I was feeling good. I saw one HS runner coming back to me. I caught him around the km mark. Now I was in 2nd place. I was going to try and reel in the leader but I could not even see him anymore. I just hoped he would die out. When I neared the 3/4 mile mark there was a turnaround and I could see the leader rushing passed me the opposite direction. Well he had an enormous lead on me of about 45 seconds. As I hit the turnaround I peeked back and saw the 50 year old was about 30 seconds back. I was really running well. I hit the mile in 6:56. Onto mile two which was the hardest mile. There were some very steep downhills and I ran them pretty hard to gain seconds and establish 2nd place by as much as possible. Equally steep uphills were run pretty well also. Around the halfway mark was a confusing part and I was trying to go over in my mind the course map. Luckily I manuevered this portion correctly while after the race I found out 3 runners got lost here for almost a minute. I hit the 2 mile mark in 14:21. Whoops this course is a monster I need to hit mile 3 hard to break 22. I had run the 1st 2 miles prerace but did not know what mile 3 had to offer. Luckily it was not as bad as the 2nd mile. There were some hairpins turns but not as many hills. There was one long hill that kept going around 2.5 miles....I was at 18 minutes by my watch. Around 21:30 I descended an incredibly steep sandy hill. When I got to the bottom 22 minutes had elapsed. I still had to turn left and run on the grass to the finish. I finished in 22:28 for 2nd of 8 runners. The 3rd runner was about 3 minutes behind me and the winner ran a 19:48. I can think back and realize most CC courses for high school are not about beating a PR but getting a good placement for your team. I ran hard but the course kicked my butt. It was a great workout. No pavement to pound my legs and body. Now its on to keep training for a half marathon on Sept. 27. EDIT TO ADD: Stay tuned for Youtube footage of August 22 alumni race when i get a chance to upload it.
I ran a 5k yesterday at my old high school. It was the alumni team against the current high school team. Only 2 high school members showed up and 6 alumni. The temp was about 63 degrees at the start great August weather in Michigan. It had rained and made the ground soft.The course was through wooded trails and had about a dozen steep hills to climb. I realized then that the race was a fun run and set my goal at 22 minutes.
The gun went off and I raced across the soccer field. Both high school runners took off like they were shot from a cannon. Another 50 year old led me and my sister was close behind me. I turned and said "Slow down you are going too fast" to my sister. Into the woods and the 1st half mile was not bad - mostly downhills. I gained on the 50 year old runner and caught him at half mile. I was feeling good. I saw one HS runner coming back to me. I caught him around the km mark. Now I was in 2nd place. I was going to try and reel in the leader but I could not even see him anymore. I just hoped he would die out.
When I neared the 3/4 mile mark there was a turnaround and I could see the leader rushing passed me the opposite direction. Well he had an enormous lead on me of about 45 seconds. As I hit the turnaround I peeked back and saw the 50 year old was about 30 seconds back. I was really running well.
I hit the mile in 6:56. Onto mile two which was the hardest mile. There were some very steep downhills and I ran them pretty hard to gain seconds and establish 2nd place by as much as possible. Equally steep uphills were run pretty well also. Around the halfway mark was a confusing part and I was trying to go over in my mind the course map. Luckily I manuevered this portion correctly while after the race I found out 3 runners got lost here for almost a minute.
I hit the 2 mile mark in 14:21. Whoops this course is a monster I need to hit mile 3 hard to break 22.
I had run the 1st 2 miles prerace but did not know what mile 3 had to offer.
Luckily it was not as bad as the 2nd mile. There were some hairpins turns but not as many hills.
There was one long hill that kept going around 2.5 miles....I was at 18 minutes by my watch.
Around 21:30 I descended an incredibly steep sandy hill. When I got to the bottom 22 minutes had elapsed.
I still had to turn left and run on the grass to the finish. I finished in 22:28 for 2nd of 8 runners.
The 3rd runner was about 3 minutes behind me and the winner ran a 19:48.
I can think back and realize most CC courses for high school are not about beating a PR but getting a good placement for your team. I ran hard but the course kicked my butt. It was a great workout. No pavement to pound my legs and body. Now its on to keep training for a half marathon on Sept. 27.
EDIT TO ADD: Stay tuned for Youtube footage of August 22 alumni race when i get a chance to upload it.
Hi Vappy,
Do you run on concrete? When I first started running in North NJ several years back, I lived along Hudson river and the path I ran on was pretty much all concrete. I had a lot of pain on my knees, ankles and feets. Coming back to Northern California, I have good access to dirt trails. I tripled my mileage and have no pain whatsover.
I also agree with others that when we increase our miles, most likely we have to cut out speedwork and even slow down our other runs a bit to avoid injury.
I guess you also smart to try different shoes. May be that's also a factor.
My last 5K race of the year came to 21:08. The 1K splits: 4:01, 4:04, 4:07, 4:28 and then another 4:28. Only race this year I left some on the course. After hearing 13:10 from the volunteer at the two mile mark, I called it a day, and just enjoyed the rest of the race.
I think this is an interesting graph of the race:
Had a nice kick at the end, which is shown by the drop in the blue line from around seven minutes per mile to below six minutes per mile. My old cross-country coach use to scream something like this to me: "IF YOU CAN RUN HARD AT THE END, IT MEANS YOU DID NOT RUN HARD DURING THE RACE!" All that screaming is probably why I didn't like to run back then.
Over the winter my goal will be to build up to 200 miles per month. Here's what I have in mind: October 5 miles per day (155 total miles); November 6 miles per day (180 total miles); and then December 7 miles per day (217 total miles). Will take days off in December to total 200 miles.
Good running all.
Books I Have Read
Last Race: Portland Maine Half Marathon October 5 2014
Current Goals: Run and stuff
My last 5K race of the year came to 21:08. The 1K splits: 4:01, 4:04, 4:07, 4:28 and then another 4:28. Only race this year I left some on the course. After hearing 13:10 from the volunteer at the two mile mark, I called it a day, and just enjoyed the rest of the race. Had a nice kick at the end, which is shown by the drop in the blue line from around seven minutes per mile to below six minutes per mile. My old cross-country coach use to scream something like this to me: "IF YOU CAN RUN HARD AT THE END, IT MEANS YOU DID NOT RUN HARD DURING THE RACE!"
Had a nice kick at the end, which is shown by the drop in the blue line from around seven minutes per mile to below six minutes per mile. My old cross-country coach use to scream something like this to me: "IF YOU CAN RUN HARD AT THE END, IT MEANS YOU DID NOT RUN HARD DURING THE RACE!"
Well your coach was right to a certain extend, as you said you called it a day at mile 2, of course you had a monster kick at the end as your 4k was 20+ secs above 1 - 3ks and 5k was probably real slow as ended up the same as 4k despite Monster kick. You were on pace for 20:24 at mile 2 and called it a day instead of of by my math if you kicked it up a few seconds the last 1.1 mi. could have had best time for the 2009 season (20:20)??
Is the goal to do the best you can do or break some mythical barrier? Sorry as know even you calling it a day is faster than my bust my ass time, but my goal is always to go at least a little bit faster than the race before.
Also just told my daughter the exact same quote, not for her as she and another girl were neck and neck at the finishing 100 yds and although both were trying to kick neither had much in the tank. But some really slow time Boys come barrelling the last 100 yds like they were just running 100 yd sprint, so that means 1.95 miles of dogging it .
Mainrun, any races for you this Fall or Winter? Might be nice compared to the August heat.
My April and May 5K races were both 20:21 and the cool temperature was a huge benefit. In my area, June and July were cool/rainy, but every race I wanted to do was cancelled, or I was on-call for work so could not participate. Then, when I was able to race, bang, August heat and humidity got in the way. Another reason I decided to call it a day was due to left heel pain. It has Plantar Fasciitis symptoms over the last couple months. I've decided to bike and lift weights to keep fit, but do a very small number of runs (or no runs) until the middle/end of September. Fast/hard workouts bother it, so unfortunately I’m going to pass on racing this fall/winter.
Well your coach was right to a certain extend, as you said you called it a day at mile 2, of course you had a monster kick at the end as your 4k was 20+ secs above 1 - 3ks and 5k was probably real slow as ended up the same as 4k despite Monster kick. You were on pace for 20:24 at mile 2 and called it a day instead of of by my math if you kicked it up a few seconds the last 1.1 mi. could have had best time for the 2009 season (20:20)?? Is the goal to do the best you can do or break some mythical barrier? Sorry as know even you calling it a day is faster than my bust my ass time, but my goal is always to go at least a little bit faster than the race before. Also just told my daughter the exact same quote, not for her as she and another girl were neck and neck at the finishing 100 yds and although both were trying to kick neither had much in the tank. But some really slow time Boys come barrelling the last 100 yds like they were just running 100 yd sprint, so that means 1.95 miles of dogging it .
This year my goal was to run faster than 20 minutes. I was not in good enough shape to do it. I do not have a “go at least a little bit faster than the race before” goal. Have fun watching your daughter run. My son ran cross-country his junior and senior year in high school, and I got a kick out of watching the races.