Goal of sub 20 5k (Read 13595 times)

    Quality / quantity isn't exactly an either / or situation. You're doing 400 meter repeats at 80 seconds so you should be able to crack 20 for 5k. If you were doing those same quality workouts on 40 or so miles a week, sub 20 wouldn't be a problem for you at all. You might have to sacrifice the quality while you build mileage, but you should be able to put it back in once you've adjusted to the new base.
    Yeah, you're probably right. Its early in the season and I'll probably switch to a higher mileage training program after I complete this one.
      Michigan, sorry to be so plain, but you do way too many time trials on the track and on the treadmill. Save it for races. There is no way I could reproduce a PB effort on my own, and there's no way I'd want to. If you're in 19:55 shape, you probably can't run faster than about 3-4k at that pace on your own, and you get a lousy workout every time you do that. Do some 800s instead and race maybe once a month.
      Yeah my orginal plan was to run a 5k alone the 1st of every month during the winter to see how I was progressing. I started with a 21:20 or so effort on November 1st. By January 8th I was around 20:57. The weather made it too difficult to compare times. I was just curious as to whether I was in sub 20 shape after all the miles I have logged recently. I felt fine for my track time trial its just when running alone you are hung out to dry and I just lost it mentally. I guess my feeling was the track was flat so it should yield about the same effort as a normal 5k route that has a few hills and turns. I was wrong. Thanks for the advise. I am still curious as to what kind of shape I am in for my 5k race in 13 days. I was gonna try to run 2 miles at a fast pace with my new racing flats this Thursday but I may take your advise and try 4 fast half miles with jogs in between or else try a 20 minute tempo run with the flats. I just want to get a sense how they feel.
        Thanks for the advise. I am still curious as to what kind of shape I am in for my 5k race in 13 days. I was gonna try to run 2 miles at a fast pace with my new racing flats this Thursday but I may take your advise and try 4 fast half miles with jogs in between or else try a 20 minute tempo run with the flats. I just want to get a sense how they feel.
        Try a 25-minute tempo in the flats. I don't think speed is the issue with most people, it's speed endurance. Whatever you do, don't run 2 miles as hard as you can. I know that there's the urge to see where you're at, but believe me, tempos pay off big time.
          I think adeel is on the money with his comment. I'm usually just lurking, but enjoying this thread. I'd like to go under 20 also, but I haven't stepped it up yet (need volume and intensity). I'm somewhere around 21:00 now - I think. Have a race Saturday so I will get a data point. Going back to what Adeel said... I can run 400 repeats at 1:30 with 400 jog recoveries in between all day long (for a while anyway). But today, I ran 3 800's with SLOW 400 jogs in between and struggled to stay around 3:05-3:10. I would've tanked on the 4th repeat for sure. I think my progress will be slow unless I "suck it up" start getting those longer intervals done. Course, some more miles wouldn't hurt me either Smile Steve

          2014 - Get 5k back under 20:00.  Stay healthy!

            I think adeel is on the money with his comment. I'm usually just lurking, but enjoying this thread. I'd like to go under 20 also, but I haven't stepped it up yet (need volume and intensity). I'm somewhere around 21:00 now - I think. Have a race Saturday so I will get a data point. Going back to what Adeel said... I can run 400 repeats at 1:30 with 400 jog recoveries in between all day long (for a while anyway). But today, I ran 3 800's with SLOW 400 jogs in between and struggled to stay around 3:05-3:10. I would've tanked on the 4th repeat for sure. I think my progress will be slow unless I "suck it up" start getting those longer intervals done. Course, some more miles wouldn't hurt me either Smile Steve
            Just for a point of reference I ran 3x800s the other day and did them in 3:15, 3:14 and 3:09. I think I probably could have pulled off one more at 3:10 and then they would have started deteriorating. And with those times I ran just over 20 minutes so you may be closer than you think. But the only real test is to do a race. The adrenaline, crowd and other runners helps to pull you along and you can definitely run faster in a race than by yourself.
              I can run 400 repeats at 1:30 with 400 jog recoveries in between all day long (for a while anyway). But today, I ran 3 800's with SLOW 400 jogs in between and struggled to stay around 3:05-3:10. I would've tanked on the 4th repeat for sure.
              What were the times? A 20:00 5k is about 3:12 pace, so I'd aim for 3:10-3:12. Doing 6 x 800 in 3:12 with a 2:00 jog means you're ready to go. You should also be able to do a 5k tempo in 21:30. It's clear that you have lots of speed, it's the speed endurance that's lacking. I got to 18:45 pretty easily, mostly with tempos, but I plateaued there for a while. I once ran 8 x 400 in 79 and thought I could break 17. It didn't quite happen. It took 4-5 months of 40-minute tempos and progression runs before I ran 17:44 in a heavy training week. Most people on this thread have enough speed, but they don't have the ability to hold that speed.
                adeel, Well, that 2:00 jog is more like a 2:40 crawl for me. (Yes, I need to decrease that rest time!) I'm doing a little mini-taper for Saturday's race: (note these are actually .5 mile, using my garmin for these repeats on a mostly flat stretch of road) Yesterday: 3 x 800 (warmup, #1 3:12, 2:33 recovery,#2 3:02, 2:41 recovery,#3 3:04, cooldown) Today: 2 x 800 (warmup, #1 3:04, 2:46 recovery, #2 3:05, cooldown) The 5k on Saturday will help me figure out where I'm at. But hopefully I will be able to buildup on the number of these intervals and short recoveries. I may try that 1000 m workout someone mentioned early also. I'll see if I get fired up during the race, but I think I'm a little ways off right now. (My speed comes from Ultimate Frisbee - I'm very quick in short distance, but tank pretty quick. Last year was my first year over 1000 miles so I'm still very much learning to run distance) I will watch some of you guys succeed and hopefully I'll get motivated. Steve

                2014 - Get 5k back under 20:00.  Stay healthy!

                  Great thread all. One of the best on the board. Don't know why I haven't read it before today. I'll join your quest. Current PR is 21:01 but its from about a year ago. No idea where I'd be if I tried one today, I'd guess 20:30-45. After this months marathon of marathons I'd like to turn my attention to getting under 20:00. It sounds like fun to try. I may not be running much this summer, but this'll be the main goal next fall.
                  E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
                  -----------------------------

                    Welcome and good luck JK. There's also a 5K training group, but it seems like most of the discussion happens here. I'm racing this Saturday... hope to go under 21. My PR is 21:33 on a not so flat course.
                      I'll join your quest. Current PR is 21:01 but its from about a year ago. No idea where I'd be if I tried one today, I'd guess 20:30-45. After this months marathon of marathons I'd like to turn my attention to getting under 20:00.
                      Count me in. Current PR on a certified course is 20:50. That was done last may. I am running the same race, same course on May 3. We will see what happens. Sub 20:00? I am hopefull. Good luck to all, keep your eyes open over on the 19:?? side.
                        adeel, Well, that 2:00 jog is more like a 2:40 crawl for me. (Yes, I need to decrease that rest time!) I'm doing a little mini-taper for Saturday's race: (note these are actually .5 mile, using my garmin for these repeats on a mostly flat stretch of road) Yesterday: 3 x 800 (warmup, #1 3:12, 2:33 recovery,#2 3:02, 2:41 recovery,#3 3:04, cooldown) Today: 2 x 800 (warmup, #1 3:04, 2:46 recovery, #2 3:05, cooldown) The 5k on Saturday will help me figure out where I'm at. But hopefully I will be able to buildup on the number of these intervals and short recoveries. I may try that 1000 m workout someone mentioned early also. I'll see if I get fired up during the race, but I think I'm a little ways off right now. (My speed comes from Ultimate Frisbee - I'm very quick in short distance, but tank pretty quick. Last year was my first year over 1000 miles so I'm still very much learning to run distance) I will watch some of you guys succeed and hopefully I'll get motivated. Steve
                        Hey Steve, There really isn't a huge need to taper for a short race like a 5k unless you are running 60 miles a week. But I think you need to ease up on your fast stuff before a race. Normally I would do my last speedwork 4 days before a race. The rest of this week go run some easy stuff at 8:20 per mile pace or so if possible Run 3-4 miles at that pace. If you take a day off take Thursday off. Then run 2-3 very easy miles on Friday (the day before your race)
                        evtish


                          I'm hoping to get under 20:00, I don't know if it's realistic or not. It would be 40 seconds off my PR, and last race season taking two seconds off my PR was a b*tch.
                          ULTIMATE SANDBAGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Clowning around
                            Hey, Good thread so far. Breaking 20 minutes is a secondary goal for me now since I'm in the middle of marathon training but I'm running a 5k this weekend and another next month. I haven't run a 5k in over a year but I ran an 8k a couple weeks ago and crossed the 5k mark in 21:12 without a struggle so I'm hoping for at least a 20:30 this weekend. Anyway, just curious what kind of strength training everyone is doing with their running. Everyone seems to be talking about intervals but I'd think strength training would be big part of 5k training. What kind of core workouts? Do you go to the gym and lift weights? Plyometrics? What is best for building speed? Since I'm marathon training I do lots of core work and only low weight high rep leg exercises at the gym. I also do a quick routine of squats and various injury prevention type exercises as my warmup before a run.
                            Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get. -- Homer Simpson
                              Yesterday: 3 x 800 (warmup, #1 3:12, 2:33 recovery,#2 3:02, 2:41 recovery,#3 3:04, cooldown) Today: 2 x 800 (warmup, #1 3:04, 2:46 recovery, #2 3:05, cooldown)
                              That is waaaaay too fast! There's really no point to running fast than 3:10. You probably could've done another couple if you stayed at 3:12. There's also nothing wrong with starting at 3:15, getting to 3:12 on the second one, doing four more with the last one in 3:10. Definitely focus on doing 5-6 your next time out, along with a tempo of 25-30 minutes. That'll build a lot of strength.
                                Agree almost totally, except that even 3:15 is too fast--much too fast, actually. I'm a huge believer in basing workout paces off currrent race times rather than goal, except for tiny doses once in a while. Last 5k for sjsutton was6:55 pace. Why run workouts more than 20 seconds a mile faster than you can race? It's so hard to get most runners to buy this, but it's such a better feeling to run them hard enough and have a little left when you finish--and it works too. After you start racing faster doing it this way you will start to have confidence in it. When your race times come down, then quicken the workout pace, but not before. I guarantee you will benefit more from 6 x 800 at 3:25-3:30 with a 200 jog than you will from what you just did. Think "comfortably hard" rather getting to the point that you feel like quitting after every lap. Do a few strides on your easy days to work on turnover. My timing is very bad for bringing this up, since I just did 8 x 400 today for the first time in ages. However, I have rarely gone as fast as current 5k pace in workouts. Almost everything has been 10k pace and slower, except for strides or a couple 200's at the end of a longer workout. I brought my 5k down from 21:30 to 19:04, which is not that easy considering that I starting making the push at 59. After more than 2 years of nothing but threshold and endurance work I decided to throw in a few quicker reps today to try and sharpen up but they will never be the main course.
                                Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33