Forums > Racing > Goal of sub 20 5k
Prince of Fatness
i believe we all realize you are against 'gadgets'
And you're against "no gadgets". Perhaps, just perhaps, there is a middle ground somewhere?
The jogger formerly known as MrPHinNJ
i thnk we all should run with garmins, pedometers and two lap counting stop watches! of course i have room for middle ground. does everyone have to run with a gadget? gosh no! do i believe it will help them learn how to control their pacing? heck yeah. let me ask you this, if you had used a garmin in your training early on don't you feel like it would've helped you 'learn' your pacing ability/strategy a little faster?
Checking pace during a race is fine, but exactly how do you *know* what the right pace is, particuarly on that day in those conditions? Maybe you can base it on training, which might get you close. If you base it on pacing in previous races, all you're doing is adjusting for a situation that existed then but not necessarily now.
I see little benefit on relying on the information of a gadget during a race. I can understand taking it into consideration, but that would be the limit. And it's not anything you can't learn by feel.
let me ask you this, if you had used a garmin in your training early on don't you feel like it would've helped you 'learn' your pacing ability/strategy a little faster?
I have a garmin and use it all of the time. Now it's basically a recording device.
But yes, you need something to pin numbers to an effort level. Watch, Garmin, whatever. And I will admit that early on I paid more attention to it in order to validate the effort level. But as time goes by I find that I am paying less attention to it, even in races. And I think it's something that anyone can learn given some practice and patience. That and understanding that as conditions change your pace will likely change, too. Many people posting questions don't seem to have a grasp on that last point. Because they are fixated on a number.
I guess it's the 99.9% thing that got me going.
Giddyup.
Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, turn.
For a 3.1 mile race, this is going to hold true for me whether I'm stealing glances at my shiny new 310, the split I just punched on my ironman watch, or my tan line where my watch usually is.
And for a 3.1 mile race, this is true for me (note my usage of "for me") whether I'm running 19:30 or 23:00. I would assume it would also hold true at 18:30, but I don't know yet. If I can't breathe, I slow down.
When I screw up a 5k, I think afterwards "what could I have done better?" Pacing is an issue that comes up. When I started running them, it was the classic "go out at a sprint" start that would poke me. What helped me fix this was *not* knowing my specific pace in real time. What helped me was 1) learning how to properly warm up, 2) learning how to NOT sprint out, and 3) learning what 'the edge' feels like.
The weather and course thing is a big deal. Let's say I run two 5ks within a few weeks of each other and hold a clock-even 6:20/mile pace throughout both because that's what I set out to do and that's what my watch told me I was doing as I went. The first race was 50 degrees. The second race was 75 degrees. Did I race correctly? Depends on my goals (based on what I wrote, I suppose I was very successful), but I'm gonna say I sandbagged the first one. I probably knew that after I finished based on how I felt.
But that's just me.
Ultima tastes like failure.
I see your point, Mikey, but the problem for a lot of us is that we don't really know what 5k pace is supposed to feel like. That's why you see those crazy split times we post here. Most of us are recreational runners without a lot of racing experience. A gadget like the Garmin helps us stick to our race plan. It may not be ideal for any given day or set of conditions, but it's probably better than going out too fast and blowing up.
afty..you hit the nail on the head...most people do not know what their 'race pace' is and that is the point of my argument (even though i despise arguing....especially when i know i'm right lol).
talk to an olympic runner sometime...ask them if they use a pacing strategy or if they just go out and run....the only distances this works for is the sprint distances....when you venture into the 800m and above distances everyone has a pacing strategy....it may be 'stay right behind the leader' but it is a strategy...
What does Tunis make?
So what I need is a gadget that connects to my brain and fixes its start out speed, apparently.
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
I have a garmin and use it all of the time. Now it's basically a recording device. But yes, you need something to pin numbers to an effort level. Watch, Garmin, whatever. And I will admit that early on I paid more attention to it in order to validate the effort level. But as time goes by I find that I am paying less attention to it, even in races. And I think it's something that anyone can learn given some practice and patience. That and understanding that as conditions change your pace will likely change, too. Many people posting questions don't seem to have a grasp on that last point. Because they are fixated on a number. I guess it's the 99.9% thing that got me going.
i used that number to start fights...and it worked
you are right that 'many people' just don't know...it comes from training....monitoring...logging...and planning
i live in georgia...trust me...i know about conditions changing....
i will say that folks should never become fixated on a number unless they have a problem with their pacing...and a lot of people can't control their pacing unfortunately and rely on some sort of external means to find it....some folks fixate on not letting 'that old guy beat me' just as much as some folks fixate on a number...
How does a device solve a pacing problem? You follow a pace, and that pace may be:
a: too fast
b: too slow
c: correct
still the same possibilities. What exactly was solved?
In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion
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talk to an olympic runner sometime...ask them if they use a pacing strategy or if they just go out and run....
These two things are not mutually exclusive. It is entirely possible for part of one's pacing strategy to be "...signals from my body will help me know what to do."
Sure, runners check clocks and splits all the time. Even the world class ones. Heck, you will find pictures of some of them running with a garmin or somesuch too.
This is not a black and white issue and trying to make it one just serves to extend the thread into la la la la land.
But if you are a new runner, or a runner who has run for years but is still learning, "running by effort" is a darned handy tool to have in the box.
Ok, bye now. This thread is kinda yuck.
How does a device solve a pacing problem? You follow a pace, and that pace may be: a: too fast b: too slow c: correct still the same possibilities. How did the device solve this?
still the same possibilities. How did the device solve this?
I would say in prinicpal agree with what you, SRL and others are saying. but for those of us not experienced enough it helps identify the problem sooner.
Example in last 5K I was busting out first half mile @ 6:45 pace although it still felt easy, so I started to slow a bit. Even at 7:00ish pace at mile 1 it still did not hit me on SRL's "If I can't breath I slow down" method, that occured at mile 1.5, after that did not look at garmin till the finish because I just needed to go a fast as I could and no risk of going to fast. So I believe that do to my lack of recognition of my pace/cabpabalities the garmin helped me recognixe the problem sooner than I would have on my own. Now over time i would hope i could be like many and do this on my own, but first I think you need to be on a somewhat stable performance level (ie - run +/- 1:00 in a 5K) where as if you are going up a speed curve fairly quickly hard to learn from experience. Last years 5ks run at 25 - 26 minutes did not have mush relavency on how i should now run < 23 minutes??
I think I've run about ten 5Ks this year, not counting trail 5Ks. I still go out too fast for the first 300m. So what I need is a gadget that connects to my brain and fixes its start out speed, apparently.
There was some guy behind me in my last race. Don't know what kind of gadget he was wearing, but the darned thing kept beeping. Not like one beep here or another beep there. It was beeping for like 5 or six seconds straight at a time. I was wondering if it was trying to tell him that his heart was about to explode or something. Never did see him and the beeping faded away. I hope he's o.k.
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