On Wisconsin! (Read 2074 times)


Prince of Fatness

    Public workers are not looking to profit at anyone's expense. I do not want you to suffer so I can have what you apparently think are cushy benefits. The unions are willing to accept cuts. We just want to keep our collective bargaining rights. I guess that's too much to ask.

     

    The super-rich are distracting the middle class by pitting us against each other, then taking off with the real money. Looks like they're getting away with it.

     

    Here in NJ my problem is with the unions and not the public employees, for the most part.  Don't make the assumption that everyone lumps the two together.  As a matter of fact I know public employees who have a problem with the unions.

     

    My first job when I got out of college was with the state in IT.  The reason that I left was because I got tired of busting my ass trying to get ahead only to see the guy in the next cubicle sleeping all day and making the same salary as me.  There was very little incentive to excel.  I paid into the union but they did nothing for me when I needed their help (it was about getting civil service tests scheduled so I could take them in order to get promoted, long story) they did nothing for me.  So I left and took a non union job.

    Semi-retired.


    MoBramExam

       

      If you don't like the pay and benefits package that your employer offers, you can go work elsewhere.  That's how it works in the real world.

       

      Thing about being middle class in America is that if you can't beat the rich, join them...

       



        Thing about being middle class in America is that if you can't beat the rich, join them...

         

        Yeah, although I bitch and moan about the high cost of medical care/insurance, we still don't regret going into the engineering consulting business for ourselves.  My husband works long hours, but at least he gets paid for all of them.  When he worked for engineering companies, they expected the same kind of dedication for a fixed salary that wasn't that great.  And I can do engineering and drafting a lot but still be home with the kids.  We make a nice income but can take off for long weekends and buy whatever tools/reference books/software we need without asking permission.

         

        I do think it's odd that we have to pay for unemployment, even though we are not eligible to claim it for ourselves (we have no other employees).


        MoBramExam

           

          I do think it's odd that we have to pay for unemployment, even though we are not eligible to claim it for ourselves (we have no other employees).

           

          Rules for U/E taxes vary by state.  Typically the plans are funded by taxes are on "wages".  Perhaps the manner in which you report your income from your business meets your state's definition of "wages"??  U/E is suppose to work like any insurance.  If you must pay the taxes (premiums), yet have no chance to collect any benefit, that's a sweet deal for the insurer (your state).

           

          I'm not a tax accountant...would claim to only have a 1st grade understanding of the issue as a whole...however, that said, that's a crappy deal for your business.

           



            Public workers are not looking to profit at anyone's expense. I do not want you to suffer so I can have what you apparently think are cushy benefits. The unions are willing to accept cuts. We just want to keep our collective bargaining rights. I guess that's too much to ask.

             

            The super-rich are distracting the middle class by pitting us against each other, then taking off with the real money. Looks like they're getting away with it.

             

            Public workers are everyone's expense.  They are paid by taxpayers.  (By the way, those are cushy benefits.  Seriously, try and find the same thing anywhere in the private sector.)

             

            And yes, it is too much to ask right now.  Here's why:  The state of Wisconsin elected a governor and representative to lead and represent them.  Unions knew hits would be coming.  Anyway, now what needs to happen is that in the next election, if the people of Wisconsin thought the current representation did the wrong thing, they'll vote them out, and things will change.  (See healthcare)  That's how this works.

             

            If being super-rich and having political beliefs to support is evil, then can we group George Soros in there too?  Seriously, though, long before I had even heard of the Koch Brothers, unions had already lost my sympathy.  By they way, it's not the Koch brothers posting on Facebook that if I don't support the unions there's something wrong with me.

             

            Lastly, I'd like to see all state employees suffer the same fate--police, firefighters, and everyone included.  I'm such a heartless bastard.

            There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

             

            Well, fuckers

            He still stands

             

            The Diary of a Once-ran.

              Yeah, although I bitch and moan about the high cost of medical care/insurance, we still don't regret going into the engineering consulting business for ourselves.  My husband works long hours, but at least he gets paid for all of them.  When he worked for engineering companies, they expected the same kind of dedication for a fixed salary that wasn't that great.  And I can do engineering and drafting a lot but still be home with the kids.  We make a nice income but can take off for long weekends and buy whatever tools/reference books/software we need without asking permission.

               

              I do think it's odd that we have to pay for unemployment, even though we are not eligible to claim it for ourselves (we have no other employees).

               

              Just curious, any of that consulting work come from the government?

               

              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

               

              2014 Goals:

               

              Stay healthy

              Enjoy life

               

                Just curious, any of that consulting work come from the government?

                 

                Not too often.  We're working on the foundation design for a building at Fort Riley right now, and my husband has done a few jobs for a fabricator who builds enclosures for the government.  Most of our work is for private contractors, architects, and larger engineering companies who give us their overflow.

                  When he worked for engineering companies, they expected the same kind of dedication for a fixed salary that wasn't that great.  And I can do engineering and drafting a lot but still be home with the kids.  We make a nice income but can take off for long weekends and buy whatever tools/reference books/software we need without asking permission.

                   

                  Let me know when you're ready to take on another employee.  I'm another engineer that wants to escape from a cubicle prison.  Just too gutless to go off on my ownSad .  Oh, and I guarantee that I won't unionize.Big grin

                  2014 - Get 5k back under 20:00.  Stay healthy!

                    Lastly, I'd like to see all state employees suffer the same fate--police, firefighters, and everyone included.  I'm such a heartless bastard.

                     

                    Me too I guess.

                     

                    I have sympathy for the union workers who were sold unsustainable benefits packages by their corrupt leaders and equally corrupt politicians.

                     

                    Just don't confuse sympathy with support. 

                    2014 - Get 5k back under 20:00.  Stay healthy!


                    A Sweetheart

                        Seriously, try and find the same thing anywhere in the private sector.)

                       

                       

                      Seriously, try to find anyone in the private sector that risks more than a paper cut as part of their job.

                       

                      Police and firemen put their lives on the line every single day.  Part of what attracts them to the job is the pension, because it sure as hell isn't the pay.  What other incentive would there be for a  fireman or police officer to stay with the same department and serve the same community for 20+ years?

                       

                      I keep reading, "Well, if you don't like it, go get a job in the private sector".  These are not people that we can afford to lose to the private sector.  Sorry to damage some egos, but 99% of us (myself included) have jobs that are in no way essential to  a basic, functioning society.  You really want to offer these men and women meh pay and no benefits and then see what happens?

                       

                      If the debate involved cutting benefits to members of the military, Republicans would be waving flags and throwing around the patriotism word.  In my city we have neighborhoods as bad as any war zone.  There is endless gun violence and daily murders.  I don't understand how anyone can't back taking care of the people who protect us on our own soil.

                      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                        There are plenty of public sector jobs that are more dangerous than being  a cop or a firefighter, but lets not even go there.

                         

                        The highest paid public employee in my town is a cop.  It's been like that for decades an I have absolutely no problem with that.  It's true in most cities and towns in MA.  If the pay is so meh then why does the MA state police have a waiting list 10 years long?

                         

                        But the huge majority of public employees are not cops or firefighters.

                         

                        And the simple fact of the matter is we can't afford the lifetime benefits packages. It's math.  If a guy retires at 50 after a well paid career and then goes on to work for 20 more years in private sector do we really need to pay him at 90% of the average of the last 5 years of his salary and full health benefits forever?  Should public employees pay only 5-6% of their health insurance when the average in the private sector is 30%?  How do you pay for that when in a few years the number of retired public employees will be about 2x the number of current public employees?  You can't.

                         

                        I get it, and I don't blame the employees--for years state and municipal governments mortgaged the future to pay for the past.  They couldn't give the public unions more money so they negotiated these pie in the sky benefits packages and sent the problem down the line for future generations to deal with. Well, unfortunately it's time to deal with it.

                        Runners run.


                        A Sweetheart

                           If the pay is so meh then why does the MA state police have a waiting list 10 years long?

                           

                           It is for reasons much bigger than the pay.  There are still a few individuals left that belive they can be a benefit to society.  Silly, I know.

                           

                          Most public sector jobs don't belong to cops or firefighters.  My point is that all public sector employees shouldn't be lumped together.

                           

                          And yeah, there are some more dangerous jobs in the private sector.  I apologize to all RA'ers who are currently on an oil rig.

                          I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                            People (minus Wrigleygirl here): Once again, let me remind you that the unions have conceded to all the $$$ cuts. The "cushy" benefits would go away (do you guys even know what the public employee benefits ARE in Wisconsin, or are you just guessing?). We JUST want to keep collective bargaining rights. That's it. So the accusation of money-grubbing is now moot.

                             

                            By the way, unions are a universal human right. Check out the UN's 1948 declaration.

                            xor


                              Ok.  You just want to keep collective bargaining rights but it isn't about money or "cushy" benefits.  That being the case, what do you want to do with these rights?  This is not a leading "aha! I've got you" question.  It is sincere.

                               

                              As for the basic right to unionize, okey doke.  Go UN.

                               

                              As for "Seriously, try to find anyone in the private sector that risks more than a paper cut as part of their job.", either I'm missing the humor in the word "seriously" or perhaps my understanding of "private sector" is different... but there are lots and lots. And lots.  Not everybody is sitting behind a desk with a swingline stapler and their radios.  (hey wait, that was me)

                               

                              But good news!  As of this morning, Seattle is apparently done being pissed off about the cop and the woodcarver.  Today, we are protesting in sympathy of our Wisconsin State brothers and sisters.

                               

                                 It is for reasons much bigger than the pay.  There are still a few individuals left that believe they can be a benefit to society.  Silly, I know.

                                 

                                Sure but the pay is a big part of it.  My best friend is a state trooper.  After he'd finished the academy and his probationary training period and became a full fledged trooper making his starting salary of $90k a year plus overtime (none of which I have the slightest issue with by the way) he joked about how ridiculously powerful their union was saying, "I could stick my gun down my girlfriend's throat and they couldn't even suspend me without a union hearing."  Cops have a morbid sense of humor, I know.

                                 

                                As for just keeping your right to collective bargaining--yeah that's the part a lot of people don't get.  The basic agreement between the unions and the state is a huge part of what created the problem and why it has taken so much longer to address it in the public sector than it did elsewhere.  The problem is not unique to Wisconsin, it's in just about every state government.

                                Runners run.