On Wisconsin! (Read 2074 times)

    Totally valid question. I can't say for sure what we/I want to do with these rights. I think probably fight for more benefits and pay, yup. That much is true. But a seat at the negotiation table doesn't ensure we get what we want. And I genuinely don't think public workers would fight for benefits if those benefits were hurting others.

     

     

    Ok.  You just want to keep collective bargaining rights but it isn't about money or "cushy" benefits.  That being the case, what do you want to do with these rights?  This is not a leading "aha! I've got you" question.  It is sincere.

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      Benefits cost money.

      Benefits are paid, in part, by money collected from the public through taxes, fees, and other stuff.

      The public has a vested interest in what they are being asked to pay for.

      The public is being asked/coerced to fund benefits that in many cases they themselves do not have.

      The public gets tired of this.

       

      I have absolutely NO IDEA if this applies to this specific case.  And this does not relate directly to the non-unionized public's fatigue with unions, many of which have nothing to do with government institutions.

       

      Mostly that's the strawman for why some segment of "the public" is disillusioned with government in general.

       

      Me?  I think the question is faaaaar more complex than this.  And I saw Norma Rae and read The Jungle, and there was/is badness out there.

       

      Just responding to "And I genuinely don't think public workers would fight for benefits if those benefits were hurting others."  I 100% believe you.  I don't directly want something I do to hurt others either.  But this is kind of sort of a rationalization.  The questions and issues are complex... but really, people are going to be making more and more sacrifices down the road.  I know government employees have. And will.  Us too.  Even the paper cut folks.

       

        SRL, I agree! Yup. I get it. And yeah, totally complex.

         

        There's more to the bill in question than the union stuff, even. Like appointing committees to cut public transit and cut Medicaid. As in, the bill itself is complex. 

           

          The highest paid public employee in my town is a cop.  

           

          Are you sure about that?

           

          In my town and most in the our state, its the public schools Superintendent that takes that title. Many are making well over 250,000 a year and have several other extremely high paid administrators working under them.

           

          The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

           

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          Dave

            Are you sure about that?

             

            In my town and most in the our state, its the public schools Superintendent that takes that title. Many are making well over 250,000 a year and have several other extremely high paid administrators working under them.

             

            I struggle with that.  Particularly given the hard choices many school districts are forced to make with class size and teacher hiring.

             

            $250K could pay for almost 10 teachers Big grin.

            I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

            dgb2n@yahoo.com


            Prince of Fatness

              I struggle with that.  Particularly given the hard choices many school districts are forced to make with class size and teacher hiring.

               

              $250K could pay for almost 10 teachers Big grin.

               

              Yeah, this comes up here in NJ, too.  It's complex.  Some of these administrator's contracts are unbelievable.  I think that the answer at least here in NJ is to combine districts.  If you make that much you ought to be responsible for a whole bunch of kids, not just a couple of hundred.  The problem is that the same people bitching about high taxes don't want to hear about combining school districts, because little Johnny's education might suffer.  I think that that's a crock of shit, but whatever.

              Semi-retired.

                Ew on the $250K. I get that you have seniority, etc., but yeah--that could pay for a lot of teachers. Not cool.

                  In Wisconsin we have 1 state employee earning $2,500,000.00 per year.  Anyone want to guess his job title?

                  In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

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                    Beyond negotiating for fair pay and benefits, unions are there to protect workers from unsafe working conditions and unfair and corrupt hiring and dismissal practices.

                    Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                      Ew on the $250K. I get that you have seniority, etc., but yeah--that could pay for a lot of teachers. Not cool.

                       

                      The Superintendent of Omaha Public Schools makes roughly that. For that money, he manages an organization of over 8000 employees, and a budget of nearly 700 million dollars, and is responsible for the education of 50,000 kids. (How well he does this job is another discussion.)

                       

                      What do you think the CEO of a similarly-sized corporation would make?

                       

                      Just something to think about.


                      Feeling the growl again

                         

                         

                        By the way, unions are a universal human right. Check out the UN's 1948 declaration.

                         

                        Thankfully, the UN does not establish our rights in the United States.

                         

                        And +1 on superintendents.  I'm aware of at least 2 recent examples where superintendents worked the system to take hundreds of thousands of dollars from districts who were laying off teachers.

                         

                        MTA:  To compare to the above example, one of these individuals oversaw a district with 300 students in grade 7-12 and pulled $300K.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         

                          In Wisconsin we have 1 state employee earning $2,500,000.00 per year.  Anyone want to guess his job title?

                          Oooo! Oooo! I bet I know! Wink

                           

                          Can you link to the info source? That's fascinating. 

                            If you make that much you ought to be responsible for a whole bunch of kids, not just a couple of hundred.

                             

                            I agree. But the going rate for a public school superintendent is $200,000+. You need to pay that much to fill the position.


                            Dave

                              The Superintendent of Omaha Public Schools makes roughly that. For that money, he manages an organization of over 8000 employees, and a budget of nearly 700 million dollars, and is responsible for the education of 50,000 kids. (How well he does this job is another discussion.)

                               

                              What do you think the CEO of a similarly-sized corporation would make?

                               

                              Just something to think about.

                               

                              Federal civilian service and even military pay is capped significantly lower than that.  

                               

                              There are plenty of people managing significantly bigger budgets, with significantly more people, for a whole lot less.

                               

                              Check out the pay rates for federal administrative court judges.  These are Senior Executive Service level jobs.  No location starts with a 2.

                               

                              http://www.opm.gov/oca/09tables/html/alj_loc.asp

                               

                              And somehow we manage to fill the ranks of the federal executives and generals without paying that much.  I don't buy it.

                              I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                              dgb2n@yahoo.com

                                2.5 million/year.  Either the football or basketball coach.  Unbelievable.  Same situation in Iowa w/ their football coach.  Cut the budgets---for everyone.