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Carb Depletion/Carb Loading before first marathon (Read 1458 times)

     

    Hmm, pre-race no, during an ultra probably, post race sure.

    DoppleBock


      I also think it depends on the person - I eat ... a lot all the time.  If you are a persont hat eats light most of the time - Then you are likely in some state of depletion all the time - THen #3 would be preferred.

       

      If you are like me and are always full of it (Glycogen) then #5 would be fine.

      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

       

        1)  1970 - East German method - 7 days prior to race do a brisk 80-90 minute run - Then take less than 20 grams of carbs a day for the next 4, then for 3 days take extra carbs and hydrate well - Result is 200+% Glycogen.  But research has shown the body will just burn a higher % glycogen when you run So no real benefit over some other methods.

         

        2)  Modified Depletion Method - Eat 50% normal carbs for 4 days and 150-200% normal for 3 days - Hydrate well.  This gives 190+% normal glycocen levels.

         

        3)  Just carbo load - Just eat extra carbs the 3-4 days before race.  I like biggest carb day 2 nights before race - Hydrate well.  This gives 150+% normal glycogen levels.

         

        4)  Austrailian method - Do the "Just Carbo Load" but add this workout the mornig before race.  Do an Easy 30 minute run.  Add 3 minutes at a bit faster than LAT pace in the last 5 minutes - A short recovery and then 30 seconds at 1 mile pace.  immediately consume 800-1000 calories of carbs (Within 10 minutes) in the next 2 hours get another 600-800 - Hydrate well.  This gives 200+%

         

        5)  Just go to the pasta feed the night before - hydrate well.

         

        I would suggest #3 or # 5 for you.  These do not cause the body a lot of stress duing the week of the marathon.  Some research has indicated that the body works with what it has, so the more glycogen in your system the higher rate it will burn and there is not a lot of advantage to #1 and #2.  Just do not show up in a depleted state.

         

        I have used all successfully and have never hit the wall in 26 attempts.  If I am hell bent on a PR - I would likely use #4.  I do not think i would ever use #1 again.  It creates so much stress and its hard for your muscles to recover in your taper.

         

        PS - I also avoid most high fiber food the last 36 hours.

         

        I hope that helps

         

        That's a great list. For me a modification of #1 worked the best, but 3 days of depletion and 2 days of loading.


        Needs more cowbell!

          So if I am reading you guys right, carbs the days before the race, meatloaf during the race, and some alone time with my hubby afterwards and I should be good to go?   Wink

           

          I think you have stumbled upon the meaning of Life! Big grin

          I shoot pretty things! ~

          '14 Goals:

          • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

            Finally.  The definitive list on how to fuel during a race.

             

            I wonder how many RW readers take this seriously.

            Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

            StellarsJJayS


              Intentionally depleting your cab/glyco levels would be quite counterintuitive...like intentionally running out of gas a mile from the gas station just so you can fill it up with a full tank...

               

              My advice is to do what you normally do before your long runs.  That's what your body is used to, and you already know how to do it, and how to deal with your body's reactions. 

              There is only one acceptable pace...all out suicide...

              ...and today is a good day to die!

                         --  Pre

               

              =============

              "A strong butt is the key to a happy life."
              Jordan Metzl, M.D.

                agree, and keep in mind that if you go out too fast, no amount of carb loading will save you from hitting the wall. 

                DoppleBock


                  That would be funny for me - For my long runs I usually show up depleted and fuel the run with many in-run calories.  I would never do that for a marathon.  But I think the point many are trying to make is there is no need to do anything radical.   

                   

                  Intentionally depleting your cab/glyco levels would be quite counterintuitive...like intentionally running out of gas a mile from the gas station just so you can fill it up with a full tank...

                   

                  My advice is to do what you normally do before your long runs.  That's what your body is used to, and you already know how to do it, and how to deal with your body's reactions. 

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                    Intentionally depleting your cab/glyco levels would be quite counterintuitive...like intentionally running out of gas a mile from the gas station just so you can fill it up with a full tank...

                     

                     

                    There is some logic too it - if you deprive your body of carbs for a couple of days and then do the carb loading then there's some evidence that you end up storing more glycogen than if you don't do the depletion thing first (presumably your body tries to adapt to the lack of carbs by storing as much glycogen as it can). At one time this was a pretty popular technique (and no doubt some people still do it). But as I mentioned above it also has some risks and you can get a pretty good result just by doing the carb loading without the depletion first.

                    DoppleBock


                      To me "The Wall" is glycogen depletion to the point of the body shifting to Keytosis (Burning 100% fat) as its primary fuel souce - Well the body starts to consume lean muscle mass along with the fat.

                       

                      The wall is not:  Fatigue, Lactic Acid Build up, Dehydration - These bring you to a gradual slowing.  Hitting the wall will take you from 8:00 pace to 10:00 pace within 100 meters.  Dehydration of 3-5% of body weight can have a 10% impact on performance - But this is a gradual slowing and not "THe Wall" 10% of 8:00 pace would be ~ 8:48-9:00 pace.

                       

                      Sorry - I just have heard so many people say they hit the wall and not really know what "The Wall" is.  I have hit the wall in training and in 2 1/2 marathons (Went in slightly depleted) but never in a marathon. 

                       

                      agree, and keep in mind that if you go out too fast, no amount of carb loading will save you from hitting the wall. 

                      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                       

                      DoppleBock


                        Many studies that would say you store more - ie get a bigger gas tank if you do some sort of depletion.  Conflicting studies that suggest you just get less miles per gallon because the fuel is available. 

                         

                        Intentionally depleting your cab/glyco levels would be quite counterintuitive...like intentionally running out of gas a mile from the gas station just so you can fill it up with a full tank...

                         

                        My advice is to do what you normally do before your long runs.  That's what your body is used to, and you already know how to do it, and how to deal with your body's reactions. 

                        http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                        2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                         


                        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                          To me "The Wall" is glycogen depletion to the point of the body shifting to Keytosis (Burning 100% fat) as its primary fuel souce - Well the body starts to consume lean muscle mass along with the fat.

                           

                          The wall is not:  Fatigue, Lactic Acid Build up, Dehydration - These bring you to a gradual slowing.  Hitting the wall will take you from 8:00 pace to 10:00 pace within 100 meters.  Dehydration of 3-5% of body weight can have a 10% impact on performance - But this is a gradual slowing and not "THe Wall" 10% of 8:00 pace would be ~ 8:48-9:00 pace.

                           

                          Sorry - I just have heard so many people say they hit the wall and not really know what "The Wall" is.  I have hit the wall in training and in 2 1/2 marathons (Went in slightly depleted) but never in a marathon. 

                           

                          I don't really know much (anything?) about the "wall", but I've seen people stop running and start walking (or stop altogether), for bigger slowdowns than 8:00 to 10:00.

                          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                            I don't recommend a serious depletion or loading. One can leave you weak and one can leave you feeling bloated. I recommend keeping the same caloric intake the week leading up to the race, but start the week with slightly higher percentage of good fiber (fruits and vegetables) than normal and end the week with a slightly higher percentage of complex carbohydrates (pasta) than normal. That way you're getting healthy nutrients at the start of the week without gaining weight during those easy days and then the day or two before the race you're getting glycogen storage without losing your stool.

                             

                            This might sound ridiculous, but my #1 worry is always how my stomach is going to feel. The typical body takes about 18 hours to work something through digestion and intestines. If your race is at 8am, then that means you're at risk to lose whatever you ate leading up to 2pm the day before (give or take a few hours). So I like to make the dinner 2 nights before and the breakfast the day before the meals that count and then eat a sensible lunch and dinner in the afternoon/evening the day before. If all goes well, business is taken care of that night or a few hours before the race. If not, well, crap.

                             

                            Your body is designed to hold about 18 miles worth of energy, give or take a bit depending on your physiology, training, and fueling. I recommend taking small amounts of calories (whether gel or liquid or whatever) during your race and starting it early enough in the race that it has time to benefit you during the latter parts.


                            Interval Junkie --Nobby

                              This might sound ridiculous, but my #1 worry is always how my stomach is going to feel.

                               

                              Ahmen, brother.

                              2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                              Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!

                              DoppleBock


                                Very complex - I think 18 miles is fair if you are running 9-10 MPH and it is near max marathon effort level.  If you are running much below max you burn a much higher % fat.  I think it is more time based and not mileage.

                                 

                                There is also the ideology of once you start up your digestive system it starts to divert blood to digest the calories - Taking it away from the function of carrying oxygen to the muscles.

                                 

                                As for me in racing - I take between 4-7 gels depending on how hard I am racing.  I usually start @ mile #7.  If water stops are every 2 miles for the 1st 20 and then every mile - I generally take water one stop and sports drink + a bit of water to wash it down the next.  I never take gels with sports drinks.  If it is really hot I bring a baggy with S-caps and take one every 30-45 minutes.

                                 

                                In my 1st 50 mile I took 25 gels in 50 miles.  No stomach issues - Although they did gag me by the end.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Your body is designed to hold about 18 miles worth of energy, give or take a bit depending on your physiology, training, and fueling. I recommend taking small amounts of calories (whether gel or liquid or whatever) during your race and starting it early enough in the race that it has time to benefit you during the latter parts.

                                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                                 

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