Information overload...can someone stop the madness? (Read 1179 times)

First off, let me say that I just discovered the site yesterday. It seems like a great site so I decided to register. Here's my story. I'm a guy and currently 35 years old. I started running in March 07 to lose weight. I ran 3 to 5 miles a day for 4 or 5 days a week. I started out with a run/walk (mostly walk) combo but I was able to comfortably run 3 miles outside in 30 mins in about 4 weeks. I went on to run my first 5K the first week in May (27:45) and ran pretty consistently until October when I ran my first 10 miler. When the weather got colder I moved inside and cut my running down to a day or two a week. In December I decided to get more serious and develop a plan for my running. I got two books on running, one the FIRST method and another about heart rate training, I got a Garmin 305 and heart rate monitor. Did several field tests to determine my VO2 threshold and max heart rate and started heart rate training on the treadmill. It worked really well and I saw dramatic gains very quickly. As the weather improved, I decided to do one of the FIRST training plans. I liked the idea of running only 3 days a week and I could see the science behind the approach. I started with a half marathon plan, I didn't have a half marathon planned but I figured it couldn't hurt. At first it was great. The workouts were very challenging but I could complete them. April came, I got married, and my regimented training had to take a backseat. I got in whatever mileage I could get. By the time May rolled around I had signed up for a 1/2 marathon at the end of Aug and a full at the end of Oct. I restarted my 1/2 marathon training program with a pace of 8:50 and planned to convert to the full plan when I was 18 weeks out with a pace of 9:10. Everything went great until about two weeks before my marathon training started and I had to miss a couple of long runs. My first long run for the marathon training was 13 miles. I figured no problem because I had ran 11 miles 3 weeks before. The day came and I hit a wall at 6 miles. The only walking I had done in my training was on interval days when I was doing RI but I walked most of the way home that day. All of my runs very quickly started to suffer and I couldn't complete my mileage at my prescribed pace. I readjusted my pace to 10:20 for the marathon figuring that would get me in under 4:30 but it still didn't help. I tried to run more, I tried to run less, I moved inside out of the heat. I always wear my heart rate monitor and I'm diligent about keeping my runs in their proper zones. I finally abandoned the FIRST training plan as too ambitious and picked up Hal's novice training plan. Last weekend I ran the prescribed 12 miles at painfully slow 12:00/mile. For the first 5 miles I kept my heart rate in zone 1 and it never got above zone 2 for the entire run. I had to walk a great deal on the way home and my legs were like jello. It definitely didn't feel like an easy run. I feel like a 12 mile long run for an October marathon is not nearly enough distance and the way my body responded to even that distance makes me think that I may have to push the marathon back a year. I know this is really long and I apologize for that. Can someone explain how I can run 9 miles @ 8:45/mile low zone 3, 10 miles @ 11:00/mile zone 1, and 11 miles @ 9:15/mile high zone 2 on 3 concurrent weeks in May but can barely finish 12 miles @ 12:00/mile now? I've seriously considered that there is something medically wrong with me but I don't know what to tell my doctor to check for. I've researched this to death and I see so much conflicting information that I don't know what to believe anymore.

First off welcome to the site. A good crowd here full of knowledge and humor mostly about running of course. I can't really help diagnose the problem and would be presumptive to offer solutions. I can however provide some presonal experience FWIW. I subscribe to a Low Heart Rate training regime (ok you can start throwing barbs now) which is slower aerobic running. I do this as it has been a way to keep from running too hard and getting injured. That being said, it has also kept me on the road and able to build base miles. I've come to the firm conclusion after a miserable failure at the CMM in '07 due to short training and reduced miles, there is no substitute for running especially long distance if you are trying to run a HM or M. Currently there is a thread on just this topic. Slow is relative but from what you describe, you just don't have the endurance/strength that a solid base provides in running long. Others can confirm or refute or add....... So how do you run your races? Take it slow. Forget the time and go for the finish. Walk/run combo or whatever. Keep moving. Build a base and then work towards a time goal when you have the miles under your belt. I received this advice many times in the past and scoffed at it, but now I'm a kool-aid drinking believer in it. I'm using a Higdon plan right now for an Oct M and am feeling good about the training. Now, I also noticed that you are a newlywed. That also may explain why you lack the energy to complete a long run. Good luck and put in the miles.

Could be overall training volume. You lost some fitness, perhaps.

Jeff - I'm right at 185. I was 235 when I started running last March. I was 195 in January and I've been at 185 since about March. I do realize that is still large for running. I was kind of hoping to get that magical 500 out of them but I don't need achy knees. I was using the FIRST intermediate half and full marathon programs. They are heavier on speed work but their research indicated that the quality of the run was more important than the quantity of the run. That's part of my general confusion or what I called "Information Overload". I'll read one expert that will say to cut out all "junk" (their word not mine) miles and run very structured pace/heart rate/distances and then the next expert will say to ignore pace and heart rate and just get as much distance in as possible. CarmelRunner - I'm in complete agreement that at this moment I don't have the bank of miles that I need to complete longer races. My challenge has been building my bank. I'm starting to think that my training did wonders for my aerobic and anaerobic systems but failed in building the proper leg strength. My heart will go forever, my legs simply won't. Dead legs make me think I'm over-extending myself but a glance at my heart rate says I should be pushing on. It probably sounds completely naive but I just assumed that the simple act of running would make my legs more than strong enough.

Jeff - I'm right at 185. I was 235 when I started running last March. I was 195 in January and I've been at 185 since about March. I do realize that is still large for running. I was kind of hoping to get that magical 500 out of them but I don't need achy knees. I was using the FIRST intermediate half and full marathon programs. They are heavier on speed work but their research indicated that the quality of the run was more important than the quantity of the run. That's part of my general confusion or what I called "Information Overload". I'll read one expert that will say to cut out all "junk" (their word not mine) miles and run very structured pace/heart rate/distances and then the next expert will say to ignore pace and heart rate and just get as much distance in as possible. CarmelRunner - I'm in complete agreement that at this moment I don't have the bank of miles that I need to complete longer races. My challenge has been building my bank. I'm starting to think that my training did wonders for my aerobic and anaerobic systems but failed in building the proper leg strength. My heart will go forever, my legs simply won't. Dead legs make me think I'm over-extending myself but a glance at my heart rate says I should be pushing on. It probably sounds completely naive but I just assumed that the simple act of running would make my legs more than strong enough.

Well...lots of people disagree with FIRST...but you'll figure it out if you stay here long! I think you started out too hard too soon and yep...just burned out. Your heart monitor may not agree, but your legs think you have just been racing back to back to back to back. Heart rate vs. legs. This is something a lot of new runners struggle with, especially if you have some other kind of fitness. The heart and the legs may just not be at the same place at the same time. BOTH have to gain strength. And it often takes quite a long time before they are anywhere near the same place. Ditch the monitor. Ditch the planned pace. Just go run. Go run at a slower pace than you are used to and stay there for awhile. Find a pace that is slow enough that you can finish most runs going "Oh, I could have gone SOOOO much faster". Ditch the watch if you have to. Build your base slowly. At this point if you want to still do your half at the end of August, you've got to back WAY off on the pace, ditch all speed work, and just put in the miles. The next time you work really hard should be race day. MTA: and WELCOME! and start logging your runs here and open up your log and over time you will get even MORE information overload...but the good kind!

Is there any easy way to import all my previous workouts into this system? I have been diligent about tracking my workouts, first with the Nike iPod thingie and then with a Garmin 305. I suppose I could do it by hand if that's the only way. Last night was probably the low point for me. I got home and napped for about 90 minutes before going out for my run. I hardly ever nap and never for that long; plus I've had 7.5 to 8 hours of sleep all week. The run itself was painful. We ran 3 miles at just under 12:00/mile. My heart rate peaked at 1.8 which is where my historical data suggested it would be given that pace and that temperature (hot) and at the end of the run I was about as sweaty as I should be for a very easy run. The thing is, my perceived exertion was a 6 or 7 for most of the run. I wasn't able to hold a conversation and I felt like I was pressing. My long run isn't until Sunday so I'm going to focus on diet, rest, and hydration until then. I'm also planning to do my long run using a 3 min run and 1 min walk pattern to see what that does. My last two things are looking into a strength training program for my legs and getting into to see my doctor to make sure there's nothing else going on. Question: Is it worth moving inside to the treadmill for some of my running? I'm inclined to think not because the treadmill would seem to do more to improve aerobic/anaerobic condition and less to improve leg strength (esp hams & glutes) and right now leg strength seems to be a challenge. Thanks for all the help!

Were you doing the cross training on FIRST? You didn't mention it, so I wasn't sure. If not, there's another possible loss of fitness. Sorry to hear that you're having such trouble. I started out with LHR training last year and have only recently increased my intensity, and even then, only a smidge. Lots of (very) slow easy running works. At least for me.

The thing is, my perceived exertion was a 6 or 7 for most of the run. I wasn't able to hold a conversation and I felt like I was pressing.

Seriously - this is what you need to focus on. HR is only part of your system. The rest of your body is telling you something.