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Easy run question (Read 1342 times)


A Saucy Wench

    Tell us more about this part, please.  For research. 

     Surely there are places you can get heavy breathing in your ear without listening in on middle aged women talk about our kids and school choices in a small town.

     

    But if not, give me your credit card number and I can call you on my next run and talk to you for $3/minute about 2nd grade drama.

    I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

     

    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

    TJN


    S Army Kettle run...

      Lots of great scientific advice etc. 

       

      I still like to follow the conversational pace rule ... "slow enough to carry on a conversation, but fast enough to not be able to sing a song". 

       

      Over time, the conversations are happening at a faster pace (never real fast, because I'm just not fast).   

      Tim 

        Stolen from Bill Baillie: "You mean fast stuff fast and slow stuff slow, Coach?"  Wink

         

        heh heh, yeah I was just goofing around, switching to the 10 cent register.


        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

          ???  There are many things that affect heart rate other than effort.

           

          I ran today at lunch - I did not wear a watch or a HR monitor (I never wear that) - I ran easy and enjoyed the sun on my face.  

           

          You probably just don't run enough yet. Typical newbie mistake.

           

           

           

          (footnote: this was a joke - DB runs way more than me, and also competes at much longer distances)

          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

          DoppleBock


            True Dat -

             

            I am weak and slow - But if I work consistently I will get strong and slow! 

             

            You probably just don't run enough yet. Typical newbie mistake.

            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

             

              Well, I got in 2 runs since yesterday afternoon and my heart rate monitor is working again so I could actually run instead of limping around on crutches.

               

              I do realize that you can run without one, but it is SO much easier for a newbie to use one and it really lets you quantitatively identify where you are at.  You don't need a watch or mile markers to run either but most of you use one or both of those.  A heart rate monitor is an effective tool and while you might not feel one is required, it can be very helpful.

               

              Back to the original poster, I still think his easy run pace needs to be about 1 minute slower.

              Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

              DoppleBock


                No mile markers - I do have estimates of distance - 90% of the time I take my watch off before I run, 9+% of time I do not start the timer or look at my start time.

                 

                But realistically - There are poeple that need external feedback to tell them how they are feeling internally - I work with numbers all day long - I like to just go by feel and I feel burdened by data while running.  Heck the 50k I raced Saturday - I noticed the clock at each 10k look ... I never took a split on my watch.  I am told that the course has permanemt mile markers - I never notices them - I was just running.

                 

                To be fair when I 1st started marathons - I would take every mile split - Not I just look at my watch @ 5 - 10 - 15 miles to see how I am doing.

                 

                .  You don't need a watch or mile markers to run either but most of you use one or both of those. 

                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                 

                DoppleBock


                  PS

                   

                  I am 43

                  6'2

                  215#

                  Was 242 jan 1st

                   

                  thought it interesting we are similar.

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                     Surely there are places you can get heavy breathing in your ear without listening in on middle aged women talk about our kids and school choices in a small town.

                     

                    But if not, give me your credit card number and I can call you on my next run and talk to you for $3/minute about 2nd grade drama.

                     

                    You made me smile with this.  Thanks for making me read through all of this worthwhile. 

                     

                    I think the first step to any new runner should just be about adding in more miles and adding to your long run.  Being able to hold a conversation I think everyone agree will help you tell if you are running easy.

                     

                    Keep it simple easy at first.  Plenty of time to make it difficult later.  Trust me I've got lots of ways to make it more difficult like my current training plan that calls for four  26.2 mile training runs.  I've been down the heart rate road before and it just makes things more complicated then it needs to be.  Like other people have said lots of things play into that (weather, sleep, stress level, what you eat etc . . . ). 

                    2014 Goals: (Yeah I suck)

                    • Sub 22  5K
                    • Sub 1:35 1/2 marathon 
                    • Sub 3:25:00 Marathon

                      PS

                       

                      I am 43

                      6'2

                      215#

                      Was 242 jan 1st

                       

                      thought it interesting we are similar.

                       

                       

                      you've lost 27# since Jan 1st?

                       

                      wow, that is impressive.  lean mean running machine

                        You mentioned "max heart rate" a bunch of times in that post.

                         

                        I learned how to run easy without knowing what my max heart rate is.  I honestly STILL don't know what my max heartrate is.

                         

                        I could figure it out.  I could do a lot with that info, if I had it. And if I wanted to.

                         

                        But to run easy?  I really don't need that level of detail.  I go by how I feel, how I am breathing, and just a high level "eh, I think my heartrate doesn't feel all poundy" maybe.

                         

                        I agree that it is challenging for SOME new runners to figure it out 'easy'.  And heart rate can help.  But it isn't THE thing.  It's A thing.  There are other things.

                         

                        And yes, don't plug goal times into the McMillan calculator to poop out training target paces.  Unless you are already capable of the goal time you plugged in, what it poops out will likely be too fast and therefore more poop than pop.

                         

                         always enjoy srlpez posts, has a way of explaining things in simple terms.  last paragraph should go down into archives as a classic

                          you've lost 27# since Jan 1st?

                           

                          wow, that is impressive.  lean mean running machine

                           

                          I'd guess 26 of those lbs came off on March 18th.  

                          "Because in the end, you won't remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn.  Climb that goddamn mountain."

                          Jack Kerouac

                            Just an update.  I went out again last night and kept my precieved effort constant for my entire run.  I was running solo so I ended up talking to myself (stop laughing it worked) on and off to make sure that I was at about the right level.  I held the same 6:30/km pace that and even with some extra distance added on I finished feeling terrific and kind of wishing that I had planned on more.

                             

                            I am trying to avoid the mistakes I made 3 years ago where I ended up injured and off my feet for well 3 years. 

                            My sport's your sport's punishment

                             

                            2012 goals

                                          

                            100 Km month         150 K month      200K month

                            5K run    10K run     20K run              30K run

                            sub 30 min 5K         sub 55min 10K


                            Interval Junkie --Nobby

                              I empathize with the OP.  As a 'newer' runner, I've been told quite a bit that I run my easy runs too fast.  I've been trying to monitor it with conversation, but lots of times I'm running alone.  But even so, I am not under the impression that I am running more than "easy" at the times in question.

                               

                              The "go by feel" advice is wonderful . . . if you know what it is supposed to feel like.  For the new runner it sounds like you are just begging the question.  This is why the "conversation" and HRM rules of thumb, and McMillan formulas are good advice; if you don't already know what easy is, they will get you in the general vicinity.  Then, if you find yourself "overtrained" for the next workout, you know how to adjust.

                               

                              After 10mo, and my first marathon, I'm still not sure about 'easy'.  After work I tear off onto the street feeling like a gazelle -- like I could run forever at my pace.  I check my breathing, and it feels good.  I'm certainly not "working" at running.  But I have a sneaking suspicion I'm running too fast.  Sometimes at a similar pace, I'm even talking to a running partner.   And generally I'm about +15 to +30seconds off my MP.

                               

                              Sometimes I try to slow-down anyway and find the run all of a sudden becomes work.   A MP+2min pace would be much more tiring.

                               

                              Aside: When Mrs. Stadjak and I were in CA looking for giant sequoias we asked all around "yes, they're big, but how do you know, you're looking at a giant redwood?"  The invariable response, "Oh, you'll know!"  We spend most the the trip pointing and saying, "Well, that tree is really really big, I wonder if that's a red wood."  Eventually we found the forest and yep, it was unmistakable.  We just knew.

                              2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                              Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!

                                Hey Stadjak, for slower and newer runners easy pace is closer to marathon pace than for faster, experienced runners. So, that's the issue w/tagging easy pace with MP+2. Heck, my easy pace comes out to around MP+90s...give or take.

                                 

                                I hear you about how everything is a moving target for beginners, and and since I started running at age 12, when you are practically indestructible, I never had the experience of beginning as an out of shape adult.) So, I am certain that some of the advice that I give reflects that lack of experience.

                                 

                                How do you hit a moving target? You can try to do two things. 1) You can set up another target that is not moving and shoot at it instead. That's more satisfying, but it doesn't really solve the problem. or 2) You learn how to hit moving targets. That's really hard at first, but if you work at it, you can do it better.

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