1

Two questions.. (Read 868 times)


Double IPA Please!

    One- do I really need to taper for my 10 mile race on April 5? I did a search here and could not decide on my own if it was beneficial or not considering it is just 10 miles. If I should do a taper how far out and what should it look like? Two Is it necessary to run the full 10 miles prior to running the actual race? The same goes for a Marathon, if one is training for a full marathon, should they have a least one run that is marathon length? I have heard basically that if you can run say 23 in your training run long run(s) that that should be sufficient enough, if you can run 23 you can certainly pull out the last 3 or so in the actual race. Right? Wrong? Personal preference?

    Interested in looking good and feeling great? Check out my website at www.marykay.com/dyerger

    Shipping is always free with me!! :-)

    JakeKnight


      Try the search function. It's a common discussion. The short answers: you don't have to taper. At least not much. I'd probably just take it easy for a couple days before the race. No hills or speedwork or long runs. Opinions differ about running the full distance. For a 10 miler, I'd probably be running at least 12-13 milers ... but if your goal is just to finish it, sure you can make your "long" run 7-8 miles. In the marathon, not many people routinely run 26 in training (or much past 20), but some do. And the marathon is a different beast.

      E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
      -----------------------------

        One- do I really need to taper for my 10 mile race on April 5? I did a search here and could not decide on my own if it was beneficial or not considering it is just 10 miles. If I should do a taper how far out and what should it look like? Two Is it necessary to run the full 10 miles prior to running the actual race? The same goes for a Marathon, if one is training for a full marathon, should they have a least one run that is marathon length? I have heard basically that if you can run say 23 in your training run long run(s) that that should be sufficient enough, if you can run 23 you can certainly pull out the last 3 or so in the actual race. Right? Wrong? Personal preference?
        Denise: You've got to realize, we are actually looking at basically two different group of runners. One is those who race; other one is to finish. Nothing wrong with running slow so don't get me wrong. But the difference is that those who "race" would see how fast they would run that distance and they would not run the entire distance as fast as they would go on the race day. On the other hand, those who just finish would run pretty much everything at the same pace. They would do their easy run at 12-minute pace, they would do their long run at 12-minute pace, and they might do Yasso 800 at 11:40 pace, but then they'll turn around and do their tempo at 12-minute pace. They most likely look at "races" in a completely different sense; they would most likely run their 5k at 12-minute pace and 10-miler at 12-minute pace. Once again, I'm not criticising them; nor am I looking down on them. But the thing is; they really should look at the structure of training program slightly differently. Those who "race", let's say 5k, would probably do a long run of 18 miles at very easy pace; and because it is an easy pace, they can recover relatively quickly--in fact, they probably don't think much of going out for a 1-miler anyways. Then they'll step on the track or trail or a park and run the repeats of, say, 800m faster than race-pace. On the race day, they'll take a week or so to "taper" and sharpen themselves a bit. On the race day, they'll be well-rested and sharp mentally as well as physically and ready to go. They'll put their stamina (they have run much further than the actual race) and speed (they've run much faster than the race) and produce one race at that distance faster than any other training run they've done. That's what the race is all about for them. On the other hand, there are people who would like to run a half marathon just to finish. They will gradually build up their mileage. Almost ALL of their runs would be pretty much at the same aerobic pace. There's no need to run 13-miler in training, as far as I'm concerned, because that's what you're trying to achieve and, if you've done it in training, what's the point of trying to "accomplish it" in the actual race? Someone, I believe it was in the old Cool Running message board when it was actually "active", said something about, "Why do we have to run the actual marathon race to say 'I've done the marathon'? I want to run 26-miles on my own that's as good as running a marathon..." Something like that. Well, whatever you get a kick out of it; but I will NEVER consider whatever you do in training as an "accomplishment" anywhere near what you would do in the actual event. To me, it's like making a claim to the Olympic Committee that, since you've run faster than the winner 2 weeks ago in training, you should be awareded with the gold medal. Slow or fast, the RACE is where you put everything you've done on the plate and see if you could "DO IT" be it to run faster than you've ever done before or to go the distance. So to go back to your original questions: Do you need to taper? Well, is this 10-mile race important to you? Are you seeking a PR? You don't have any "marathon" or anything 6 weeks after this 10-miler that is actually your main target? Then I'd taper. Usually it takes about a week to two weeks depending on your fitness level and the race situation. Taper is not necessarily just cut back the mileage. You need to stay aerobically fit and sharpen yourself; but not to the degree that you go "over the edge" particularly for a longer event. You should fuel up without gaining extra weight; hydration, nutrition and all that are a part of tapering. Should you attempt 10-miler in training for your 10-miler? If finishing 10-mile is your goal, I don't see any need or a point in running 10-mile in training to see if you can run 10-mile. Even for the marathon, you are, in a sense, trying to find out "what's the minimum amount of training you need to do to achieve what you've set out to do." When I advise people for their marathon training, I would usually set up for them to run 3-hours about 3 to 4 weeks before the actual marathon. That, to some, could be as little as 16 miles. It's coach's ability to see if that's enough or not enough. In a sense, anybody can say, "Okay, you just did 26 miles; I will predict you can run 26 miles..."???? I mean, what's the point? Are you traing to PR in that race? Then you might want to consider going beyond but at easier pace. Are you training for half or full marathon later on, say, in May or June? Then screw tapering!


        Double IPA Please!

          Thanks so much for taking the time to answer the questions so thoroughly. It certainly answered/helped me. As far as running for a PR, the honest answer is I'm not sure. If you would have asked me that a month ago I would have said, I just want to finish due to some knee issues. However, now that things are under control and my runs are becoming easier/longer my mindset is starting to change a bit and that competitive side of me is coming out. BUT, given the fact that I'm running out of time I will just run to run in addition to that my mother is going to run with me, (she has many marathons under her belt) it might just turn out to be a fun/bonding thing more than setting any goals for my first race. I am more than ready to run, this much I know. Run for speed? Not so sure..not for this race anyhow, that will come in time as I already am seeing improvements in my pace/times with just building my base alone. I do do the occasional cruise/tempo/speed intervals but do it more for fun and to challenge myself. I am planning on running a full marathon come fall and my goals will be different at that juncture I'm sure. I'm young and I figure that I have plenty of time (hopefully) to play around with pr's and what not. I enjoy running. Always have and now that this knee issue is on the way to getting resolved, its becoming my drug of choice. My body just wants to go.. However, you might ask me in a month the same question and I might be all about setting PR's and racing for time vs.. to just finish. Yes

          Interested in looking good and feeling great? Check out my website at www.marykay.com/dyerger

          Shipping is always free with me!! :-)

            Denise: Yeah, you were the girl with a knee problem, weren't you? I guess I'm too lazy to do the homework of checking whom I'm talking to! Strengthening inside the quads or outside quads... So it's working good now??? I really do hope I didn't quite come out arrogant because, all seriousness, I don't mean to. However, I do feel quite often with vast wealth of information out there, people tend to get hurt or injured because the current situation, condition, fitness level and all that and advice, suggestion, general training plan we receive on line don't necessarily match. I see questions such as "should I do some speed training?" when people don't quite understand the difference between "running HARD" vs. "running FAST". Most people simply run HARD and run themselves in trouble in my opinion. Now that we have a bit better picture (once again, not that I went back and studies your training log...); I'd say why not go for it? You still have a month; I think you have plenty of time to work on your stamina--not so much trying to run fast (or hard) but gradually build up the duration of your run--by increasing the overall duration of your runs, you will improve your general cardiac efficiency and basic fitness level that you WILL be running faster (per mile) without any added effort. With your situation of running the race with your mother, hey, who knows, since she's had several marathons under her belt, she might be very very fit. In that case, you don't want her to slow up for you! Perhaps no so much of "taper" but running a 10-miler will get into that range of storing fuel be important factor. Make sure you fuel up a couple of days before the 10-miler with plenty of honey--one of the best sources of energy; don't tire yourself too much by trying to see if you can still run 10 miles, or 9 or 8, a week before the race. If you want to consider this as "tapering", yes, it's very important. You want to go for a good 1:00+ run the week before, but nothing like 2-hour kind of thing. Another 45 minutes or so mid week and do a couple of strides or good solid (not necessarily FAST) 1km or something like that the day before or two days before with good warm-up and cool-down. That'll get your condition on the up-swing. Is it "tapering"? Well, in a sense that you're not doing Yasso 800 or tempo run of 5, 6, 7 miles; sure, you can call that a tapering. Would that 1km be considered as "sharpening"? Well, not really. Just have fun with it and make sure you're not piling things up in the last minutes. It's not like a history exam. Going over what happened during French Revolution 5 minutes before the exam could help your exam; but not in running a 10-mile race.


            Double IPA Please!

              I would be that girl.. Big grin I have been seeing the Physical Therapist who has been giving me some quad strengthening exercises to do. I do a lot of simple Quad Sets on both legs. Also some other various exercises that have helped. I am also taping as well. It really helps bring that knee cap to where it should be. On top of it all I was also finally seen by their resident foot/shoe expert who took some measurements, thoroughly examined my feet/arches..watched me run on the mill for a bit. I am a supinator extraordinare! It is quite worse on my R leg vs my L. He went as far as to say he was surprised that I have not sprained my ankle yet as this apparently is quite common with runners who supinate like I do. On occasion my R foot will tilt over to the side but I can catch it quick and recover- since my inserts this has not happened at all and I'm sure it is another reason why I can run so much better with less not nearly as much pain as before. I will however be fitted with custom orthodics (sp?) to further help my matter. He went as far as to say that when I run my R foot never completely flattens out when I strike, so apparently my orthodic will help accomodate so that I/ my foot meets the ground completely. Undecided Sorry if this sounds are jabbered together, because it is Tongue as I am trying to recall a conversation from 2 days ago. I had a couple people watch me run that day and they all agreed. So upward and onward. You did not come across as arrogant at all. I don't like the sugar coated answers, give me the facts and be straightforward and I take what I need and store the rest of the information that I'm given. Your right I do have a month left to go and who knows. I will however continue to work on my stamina and with that comes of course is gradual speed and a better aerobic capacity. I told my mother I was scared that she would think I was too slow Big grin No worries there..she is running this just to be with me, so it will all be okay. Unless I decide to step it up! lol.. Again, thanks for all your input. This has been very helpful to me.

              Interested in looking good and feeling great? Check out my website at www.marykay.com/dyerger

              Shipping is always free with me!! :-)

                1) No need to taper for a ten miler. As JakeNight said just take it easy a few days before your race. 2) You should definitely run the full distance for a ten miler to get the most out of your training. In fact you should run a few miles farther. Long runs for a full marathon take a lot longer to recover from than long runs for a half so it's generally not recommended to do the full distance unless you are fit enough that it can be easily completed. It is definitely not productive to do the 26 miles if it takes you 5 or 6 hours to complete. Most of us mid-packers settle for a few 20-22 mile long runs instead of running the full distance. You don't need to worry about glycogen depletion in a half but it's a very real possibility on a 20+mile long run and the marathon itself. Tom


                SMART Approach

                  Denise, Currently, you are avg. less than 20 miles per week. You can't afford to taper mileage before the event. You will lose fitness. If doing intensity, then watch that a bit last week but doesn't sound like you are doing much of that. Just run very easy the couple days before. If you take a day off, take it off two days before vs. day before. Completely agree with Jakenight and Figbash and Nobby always provides awesome input.

                  Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                  Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                  Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                  www.smartapproachtraining.com


                  Double IPA Please!

                    I'm not worried about losing fitness quite honestly. By time the race comes around I'll be up to about 30+ miles a week.. The only reason my mileage has been so low in the last few weeks is due to the knees. Even with the knees I never really lost fitness because I did other cardio at the times I could not run (and I only went one full week without running due to whiplash back in Jan I believe that was). My log only goes back to December here but I have been running much longer, I lost my log when Cool Running transitioned. So my log is deceiving to look at. I have been running off and on (more on than off) for quite a few years, but never really took it all that seriously until I decided I wanted to race. So this past August is when I really hampered down and started training hard harder and focusing more. I will do a small taper nothing major..and only because of my knees not being 100% yet.

                    Interested in looking good and feeling great? Check out my website at www.marykay.com/dyerger

                    Shipping is always free with me!! :-)


                    A Saucy Wench

                      It may not be too late to get your cool running log if you ever did the transition to active at all. Or even if you didnt. Create an active account. email them and tell them you arent happy with the active account and want your data from cool running. If you arent able to transition your data over there first, make sure you use the same email that you used at cool running and give them your cool running user name. 3 days later they will email you your cool running data in a file that can be imported here.

                      I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                       

                      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                      SMART Approach

                        Denise, sounds good. I know you are fit. What I meant was running fitness and being sharp for race. Those who over taper on low mileage (which I am and you are) don't run their best and find a tougher ability to hold pace. I recently had to take a couple weeks off from running but still cross trained doing bike, stairmaster, bike etc. It took me 5 weeks to get my running fitness back to where it was before I took off which I monitored by my HRs and various paces. Good luck and you are wise to slowly build back up after the knee issues.

                        Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                        Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                        Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                        www.smartapproachtraining.com


                        Double IPA Please!

                          Denise, sounds good. I know you are fit. What I meant was running fitness and being sharp for race. Those who over taper on low mileage (which I am and you are) don't run their best and find a tougher ability to hold pace. I recently had to take a couple weeks off from running but still cross trained doing bike, stairmaster, bike etc. It took me 5 weeks to get my running fitness back to where it was before I took off which I monitored by my HRs and various paces. Good luck and you are wise to slowly build back up after the knee issues.
                          No, yeah, I know what you mean. I guess the tone you might be detecting is just sheer frustration with the knees. However, I digress.. I understand and agree to what you are saying. Small taper, nothing major. Today is a rest day for me and I am really struggling to NOT run Undecided I had an Ortho as well as a PT appt today..They are going to fit me Monday with an Auqua something something insert before jumping to a custom - orthodic (sp?). Once this is done and over with (the 10) the real work begins with training for my first Mary in the fall. As for my log, I went round and round with Active back in January and they could not figure out the problem, after multiple emails back and forth I just said the hell with it. The whole same email address log in- yes, been there done that. I have a paper log somewhere downstairs...but its scattered since I really used that Cool Running Website. I used that site for about a year and prior to that I never was log obessed like I am now. Tongue

                          Interested in looking good and feeling great? Check out my website at www.marykay.com/dyerger

                          Shipping is always free with me!! :-)