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| pace difference between short and long runs (Read 435 times) |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:48 AM
modified: 5/9/2008 at 6:03 AM |
What's a good pace difference between short and long runs. I've used to be a one pace runner but have trying to widen the pace difference between short and long runs (with questionable success). Even so, I don't feel any less tired on long runs than if I were to go at a natural pace, in fact, sometimes it feels like I'm more tired. Probably in my head 
I saw a user's log and he runs long runs _faster_ than his short runs (and major mileage). should I try this (minus the major mileage)?
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| 2008 Goals: 10k < 44, HM < 1:40, learn to use my Garmin |
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| view log Future RX-7.5 owner |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 2:42 PM |
It's not short and long runs. Easy runs can be short or long, as can quality work. Most of your runs, short and long, should be easy, and probably about the same pace. Whoever you're looking at is probably doing his long runs as 'quality'.
Taking one of your shorter runs and making it a 'tempo' where you push the pace is more what you might try to do.
Good Luck |
2008 Goals: 5K PB - Hopefully at CF Nationals
Run another ½ marathon
Run consistant milage |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 2:50 PM |
| I agree with Viich, though I would say most of the time easy runs are on the shorter end of the spectrum. The question is what are you trying to accomplish with each run? |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 3:04 PM |
I agree with Viich. The pace would depend on what your objective is rather than if the run is long or short. I usually run my long ones faster than most of the others because I consider it a key workout. I run 2 key workouts a week and sometimes 3. Everything that isn't a key workout would be easy or slow. Sometimes the long run will be easy if it comes the day after a harder workout or race. Easy for me would be apprx. 2 min per mile slower than current 10k race pace, give or take a few seconds, and sometimes slower than that.
I live down the road from you in San Jose. A couple races to consider for your 10k and HM goals might be the Alameda Run for the Parks 10k (tentative date Aug 3). and San Jose Rock 'n Roll HM in October. They are both flat, fast courses and well organized. Nice goin' in the Run for Literacy 5k. |
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:02, 10k 38:35, HM 1:26:33, 30k 2:06:26 |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 3:07 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/9/2008 at 2:50 PM: I agree with Viich, though I would say most of the time easy runs are on the shorter end of the spectrum. The question is what are you trying to accomplish with each run?
Typing our responses at the same time again I see... 
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Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:02, 10k 38:35, HM 1:26:33, 30k 2:06:26 |
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| view log Got The Life |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 4:19 PM |
| Ideally each run or workout should have a purpose and each type of run will likely have a different pace. Distance often is irrelevant, although most people don't do 20 mile tempo runs, etc. |
| The Gaijin Samurai. a.k.a The attorney dissin' attorney.
Read and Listen
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 4:30 PM
modified: 5/9/2008 at 4:33 PM |
Basically, I agree with the consenus that the goal of the workout, rather than the length of the run, should determine the pace. Actually, I prefer to talk about training "intensity" instead of "pace". For a given level of intensity (VO2max, LT, GA, recovery) pace can vary depending on the conditions of the day, particularly terrain, weather, the amount of rest that you have had, and the amount of stress that you are under.
However, having said that, I don't agree that all non-hard running should be at about the same intensity. The aerobic conditioning zone spans a fairly wide intensity range....60-80% HRmax, for instance. As a general rule of thumb, paces that approximate the aerobic conditioning zone fall in the range of 1-2 minutes/mile slower than current 10k race pace.
I think it is beneficial to utilize a good bit of the aerobic conditioning range in training. If one does that, it naturally follows that some shorter runs can be in the upper part of the range (such as 75-80% HRmax or closer to 1 minute slower than 10k race pace) and longer runs in the lower portion of the range (such as 65-75% HRmax or closer to 2 minutes slower than 10k race pace) and remain in the aerobic conditioning zone.
That isn't to say that all aerobic conditioning training runs should be planned and programed according to those guidelines. For instance, a "short" run the day after a race or a long run that is intended as a "recovery" run should be kept nearer to the "easy" end of the aerobic conditioning range.
OTOH, in the case of two or more consecutive "short" run days, one or more of them can....and should....be more toward the upper end of the range. One example is when base building over a period of weeks or months with little or no "hard" days other than long runs. In that case, short runs should be spread over the aerobic conditioning spectrum.
Training isn't always black or white. There are shades of gray. The distance and intensity of each run should be structured to accomplish the goal of the individual workout and, also, to fit into the broader training scheme. |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 4:55 PM |
Nice work, Jim2. You've managed to capture virtually all of my running message board pet peeves in one amazing post.
1. You led off with a semantic discussion; whether "pace" or "intensity" is a more appropriate word.
2. In the same paragraph you used most of the major scientific-sounding acronyms for hard and easy; VO2max, LT, GA etc.
3. You used the word "zone" three times by my count.
4. You introduced heart rate training and the acronym, "HR" to the discussion.
5. Good ole' % of HR Max. Nicely done. One of my favorites.
6. You answered a yes/no question with a six paragraph message and still managed to reiterate almost exactly what all the previous posters had said and no more. Well done.
PS: Don't mind me I'm just in a mischievous mood today. As Q would say, "Dood, beer me!"
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:12 PM |
| Quote from Kennyd on 5/9/2008 at 5:09 PM: Mikey, Can I buy you a Carona?
Dood! I said beer not fruit delivery mechanism.
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| view log Hurdle the Dead |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:14 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/9/2008 at 5:12 PM: Dood! I said beer not fruit delivery mechanism.
Easy! Stay - on - target. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:17 PM
modified: 5/9/2008 at 5:23 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/9/2008 at 4:55 PM: Nice work, Jim2. You've managed to capture virtually all of my running message board pet peeves in one amazing post.
1. You led off with a semantic discussion; whether "pace" or "intensity" is a more appropriate word.
2. In the same paragraph you used most of the major scientific-sounding acronyms for hard and easy; VO2max, LT, GA etc.
3. You used the word "zone" three times by my count.
4. You introduced heart rate training and the acronym, "HR" to the discussion.
5. Good ole' % of HR Max. Nicely done. One of my favorites.
6. You answered a yes/no question with a six paragraph message and still managed to reiterate almost exactly what all the previous posters had said and no more. Well done.
PS: Don't mind me I'm just in a mischievous mood today. As Q would say, "Dood, beer me!"
Glad you enjoyed it. 
Edit: OK, I'll answer each the OP's two yes/no questions with one word:
Q: "What's a good pace difference between short and long runs."
A: Yes
Q: "I saw a user's log and he runs long runs _faster_ than his short runs (and major mileage). should I try this (minus the major mileage)?"
A: No |
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posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:36 PM |
Excellent revision.
Now the important question is can you offer me anything better than a Corona? |
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| view log Hurdle the Dead |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:37 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/9/2008 at 5:36 PM: Excellent revision.
Now the important question is can you offer me anything better than a Corona?
What a Masshole. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
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| view log NFL starts when? |
posted: 5/9/2008 at 5:57 PM
modified: 5/9/2008 at 5:59 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/9/2008 at 5:36 PM:
Now the important question is can you offer me anything better than a Corona?
done:
MTA: Sorry, it looks as though I may have passed you one that has already been drank drunk drinked consumed. |
| Run like hell. |
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