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Two choices: which is better overall? (Read 1503 times)

machinebaard


    Consider this: we have a runner with no injury and no injury potential. He is under 25 and adult. He has been running for one year max and he has no aerobic base as he only ran hard intervals, fartleks and tempos. Suppose his mileage was low(under 15 miles a week). He ran several races, but none of them were satisfying (because he had no base). There was no or little improvement. Now the runner wants to race well, and he also wants to have a really solid aerobic base(!). Suppose the runner has two choices and suppose he follows the plan he chooses strictly. This are the two choices: Plan A: Our runner runs 5 days a week. He increases mileage every week, and takes a step back every third week. He builds up from 15 miles to 50 a week fairly quickly(suppose he won’t get any injury). He plans the race, and then counts back. 50% of the weeks (3 months minimum) he builds his aerobic base. No hard runs whatsoever. After that 50%, he has a 15%(of the time) hill period. He remains building his base, but incorporates one hill session a week. Then the remaining 35% of the time (max 8 weeks) he has the anaerobic period, which substitutes the hill session for an interval session. The runner will probably run a big PB. This is what the runner wanted, but, he also wanted a really solid aerobic base, which he kind of impairs with his anaerobic sessions. Plan B: Our runner runs 5 days a week. Following years he only runs aerobic, except for 2 races a year. His strategy is like this: he runs at a low heartrate (at or below MAF; 1,5-2 minutes per mile slower than 10K pace if you like). He stays running 15 miles a week and charts his progression with a monthly MAF test. He will run the same weekly mileage over and over again, till he reaches a plateau. When this happens, he increases his mileage with 5 miles a week. Then he waits till he reaches a plateau again. He keeps repeating this till he is at a really high amount of weekly mileage, 60 miles a week as minimum. Now this would ofcourse take a hell of a time to complete. As mentioned the runner races two times a year. You could say that he has now optimized his aerobic system to the max. However, his races would be worse than with plan A. The question is, what is better for our runner? He wants to race well, but he also wants to reach the maximum aerobic function. You race well with plan A, but less with plan B. Your base gets kind of impaired for a small amount of time with plan A, not with plan B. What do you all think that is better for the runner? And especially: why?


    The Thunder

      There is a train leaving Nashville at 5 PM CST heading east at 40 MPH. There is also a train leaving Knoxville at 6 PM EST heading west at 45 MPH. Both trains are on the same track and will run into each other somewhere around Cookeville. Which train will you be on? Either way, we'll all be better off w/out questions like the one you posted. Thanks. I am of course being "Snarky". Please don't ban me oh God of Runningahead! Big grin

      1 Hip and 2 Hamstring reconstructions later…

      zoom-zoom


      rectumdamnnearkilledem

        Is this a train with a bar car? 'Cause if it is, I'm buyin' my ticket! Clowning around

        Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

        remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

             ~ Sarah Kay

        mikeymike


          What the hell are you talking about?

          Runners run

          jEfFgObLuE


          I've got a fever...

            The question is, what is better for our runner? He wants to race well, but he also wants to reach the maximum aerobic function. You race well with plan A, but less with plan B. Your base gets kind of impaired for a small amount of time with plan A, not with plan B. What do you all think that is better for the runner? And especially: why?
            If the goal is to run slowly all of the time, run minimal amounts (until you slowly build up), and have mediocre races, go with B. I'd go with A. You can have it both ways. Even in the "anaerobic" phase, you're only talking two quality sessions per week. The other four or five days are just easy runs, which contribute to aerobic development. Anaerobic running and hill running do not impair aerobic development unless you do too much of it and don't recover. If there was a real concern with overtraining, all of the easy runs in the A plan could be done at MAF (which in reality, is simply a tool to prevent overtraining). Main thing is that the runs are easy to promote recovery from hill or interval sessions. Why is this even a question? Look at this way A. Fun varied training, improved racing over a reasonable time period B. repetitive slow training, sucky racing over an extended time period Not to difficult a choice, IMHO.

            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

            zoom-zoom


            rectumdamnnearkilledem

              What the hell are you talking about?
              Who, me? I'm talkin' about gettin' my drink on. Not sure what the first guy is talking about... Confused

              Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

              remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

                   ~ Sarah Kay


              1983

                Is this a train with a bar car? 'Cause if it is, I'm buyin' my ticket! Clowning around
                What if both trains have bars on them. Hmmmm What to do? Confused
                Favorite quote: Stop your crying you little girl! 2011: Mt Washington, Washington Trails, Peaks Island, Pikes Peak.
                zoom-zoom


                rectumdamnnearkilledem

                  What if both trains have bars on them. Hmmmm What to do? Confused
                  Are the selections and prices the same? Which has the hotter bartender?

                  Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

                  remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.    

                       ~ Sarah Kay


                  The Greatest of All Time

                    I would say option 'A'. But that might be because I didn't fully understand option 'B'. I am of the opinion that low heart rate running does not a fast racer make. And I don't think hills and intervals are truly anaerobic. A 100 or 200m race is anaerobic but hills and any intervals done to develop a distance runner are going to be aerobic if you plan on the intervals lasting more than 1 minute or so. But I think I understand what you mean. I would call it lactate threshold training as opposed to anaerobic, but that's just me.
                    all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

                    Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.


                    1983

                      Consider this: we have a runner with no injury and no injury potential. He is under 25 and adult. He has been running for one year max and he has no aerobic base as he only ran hard intervals, fartleks and tempos. Suppose his mileage was low(under 15 miles a week). He ran several races, but none of them were satisfying (because he had no base). There was no or little improvement. Now the runner wants to race well, and he also wants to have a really solid aerobic base(!). Suppose the runner has two choices and suppose he follows the plan he chooses strictly. This are the two choices: Plan A: Our runner runs 5 days a week. He increases mileage every week, and takes a step back every third week. He builds up from 15 miles to 50 a week fairly quickly(suppose he won’t get any injury). He plans the race, and then counts back. 50% of the weeks (3 months minimum) he builds his aerobic base. No hard runs whatsoever. After that 50%, he has a 15%(of the time) hill period. He remains building his base, but incorporates one hill session a week. Then the remaining 35% of the time (max 8 weeks) he has the anaerobic period, which substitutes the hill session for an interval session. The runner will probably run a big PB. This is what the runner wanted, but, he also wanted a really solid aerobic base, which he kind of impairs with his anaerobic sessions. Plan B: Our runner runs 5 days a week. Following years he only runs aerobic, except for 2 races a year. His strategy is like this: he runs at a low heartrate (at or below MAF; 1,5-2 minutes per mile slower than 10K pace if you like). He stays running 15 miles a week and charts his progression with a monthly MAF test. He will run the same weekly mileage over and over again, till he reaches a plateau. When this happens, he increases his mileage with 5 miles a week. Then he waits till he reaches a plateau again. He keeps repeating this till he is at a really high amount of weekly mileage, 60 miles a week as minimum. Now this would ofcourse take a hell of a time to complete. As mentioned the runner races two times a year. You could say that he has now optimized his aerobic system to the max. However, his races would be worse than with plan A. The question is, what is better for our runner? He wants to race well, but he also wants to reach the maximum aerobic function. You race well with plan A, but less with plan B. Your base gets kind of impaired for a small amount of time with plan A, not with plan B. What do you all think that is better for the runner? And especially: why?
                      This can't be a serious question, because one important detail was left out. What cadence is each method done at?
                      Favorite quote: Stop your crying you little girl! 2011: Mt Washington, Washington Trails, Peaks Island, Pikes Peak.
                      Scout7


                        You know who could answer this question? Dr. Dilligaf. He'd nail it in a MAF heartbeat. Of course, I address this very same type of scenario in my e-book, soon to be available on Chia Running


                        Lazy idiot

                          I called Dr Dilligaf on his cell, he didn't care. I was surprised, as I (like you) thought he'd be all over this one.

                          Tick tock

                          JakeKnight


                            This can't be a serious question, because one important detail was left out. What cadence is each method done at?
                            Indeed. I wondered about the cadence. Also - is the runner striking with the heel or the forefoot? That would heavily influence my answer. Depending on how heavily under the influence I was.

                            E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
                            -----------------------------


                            The Greatest of All Time

                              Indeed. I wondered about the cadence. Also - is the runner striking with the heel or the forefoot? That would heavily influence my answer. Depending on how heavily under the influence I was.
                              You guys are too much!
                              all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be

                              Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.
                              Scout7


                                I vote for #4. Although #69, the Broccoli Chicken with Rice, is pretty good, too.
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