Boston, Boston, Boston (Read 1248 times)

Mishka-old log


    Trishie... As far as increasing your aerobic base....you could add in some cross training almost immediately. You will have to phase this in, but not nearly as gradually as you would for an equivalent increase in running mileage. I notice you have 1-2 days off each week. Maybe your non-athletic schedule demands this. But, if you have time to spare, try adding 45 min at a low intensity on a bike. You can increase this to around an hour, or 1:15 once you adjust to it. Upright bikes give more aerobic stumulus than recumbent bikes. Also remember to keep the RPMs high...at least around 90, and 100+ is even better. This will keep the load off and fatigue out of your legs so you can be fresh for your next run. Still, if you do decide to supplement with cycling, ease the pace back a bit on your next few runs that follow cycling workouts until you know how (or if) the additional stress will affect you. I wish we were having this conversation in October. I've heard some very good accounts of using cross training to supplement a running program on a permanent basis. I'm doing the Chicago marathon and plan on supplementing significantly with cycling. I've always had problems with injury if I get much over 60 miles per week. The bulk of my training, once it really kicks in will be 55 miles per week running and 150 miles per week of cycling. I have a big background in cycling so I wouldn't recommened that many cycling miles to someone who does not. I'll be sure to post a thread after the marathon with my thoughts on this type of training program.
    JakeKnight


      I wish we were having this conversation in October. I've heard some very good accounts of using cross training to supplement a running program on a permanent basis.
      I've been reading a lot of the same thing, and would really like to learn more - especially about what kinds of cross-training are most effective (versus those that might actually slow you down), and how much/how often you should be doing it. I've heard some amazing stories about runners who started doing triathlons, dropped thier runs to just 2-3 a week so they could cycle and swim, and actually saw big improvements in thier running ... Mishka, I hope you start another thread at some point to report your findings.

      E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
      -----------------------------

      Mishka-old log


        Jake, From what I've heard and read...I've put together the following schedule. Hopefully it give you an idea of the "how much/how often" piece. As far as what types of cross training...I've heard great things about cycling as well as swimming. I don't have actual experience with significantly summplementing a running program with either, but my season-long experiment this year will be almost all cycling as cross training. Mon - Off, or bike commute to/from work (20 miles each way) Tue - Run, easy 12 mi Wed - Run, 6-7 mi tempo (12 mi total) Thu - Bike commute to/from work Fri - Run, easy 12 mi Sat - Bike, long 60-70 mi Sun - Run, long 22 mi That's an example of the biggest week I will do. You can see why I wouldn't recommend 150 miles of cycling to someone who hasn't done much cycling. In my background, 100 mile rides were regular on one weekend day and it wasn't uncommon to hit 120. So, a 60-70 miler at an easy intensity, keeping the RPMs high should be manageable the day before a long run. If not, I'll know in advance from similar rides in smaller volume weeks, and I'll modify appropriately. The key is adding in the cross-training gradually, paying close attention to how it affects your running. The intensity for all my cycling will be 100% aerobic with high RPMs (105-120). As a last note...my 5k PR was during a period where I was doing a ton of triathlons.
          I knew a lady whose husband crosstrained for Boston largely by rowing. Has anybody heard of somebody else doing that? I'm not thinking of running before next Fall but, rowing is my main crosstraining exercise. If definitely keeps up the aerobic base but, I'm not so sure of how effective it would be for marathon training.
          mikeymike


            I've been reading a lot of the same thing, and would really like to learn more - especially about what kinds of cross-training are most effective (versus those that might actually slow you down), and how much/how often you should be doing it. I've heard some amazing stories about runners who started doing triathlons, dropped thier runs to just 2-3 a week so they could cycle and swim, and actually saw big improvements in thier running ... Mishka, I hope you start another thread at some point to report your findings.
            Forget new threads, lets just keep hijacking this one. I don't have much personal experience with cross training and in general I believe the only way to become a faster runner is by running, but there are clearly cases where cross training can have huge benefits. Here's one such triathlon case. Prior to the 2006 Chicago Marathon, my sister had run 7 marathons over the course of about 5 years, all in the 4:20 to 5:00 range. She had tried going high mileage but always broke down. When she ran her PR of 4:20 in 2003 at Boston she was hitting 55+ miles per week in stretches but reached race day feeling pretty beat up. Then she started biking and swimming last year to start doing tri's and, voila, she ran 3:50 at Chicago off of lower mileage. For her a big part of it was clearly weight. She had always carried 10-15 extra nagging pounds around that increased the punishment of running but she could never run enough mileage to get rid of. When she went to tri training she was doing 3-4 runs, 2-3 swims and 1-2 bikes each week. So although she was running less, she was working out way more and wound up dropping about 15 lbs. Her running got faster and easier. When she started getting ready for Chicago she kept 2 swims and a bike most weeks because it had been working. A 30-minute PR at the marathon is pretty awesome, but for a runner with 7 previous marathons under her belt it is truly astounding. And the best part was that she said it was easy. She called me just after the finish and all she could say was, "I cant' believe I'm DONE!!"

            Runners run

              Awesome thread, guys. Great topic, Trishie. Clowning around Wink I, too, have ~20 minutes to shave off my time to BQ. I'm not even sure I should be thinking about it this year since my very first marathon was only 4 weeks ago. For the future, though, I was wondering about high-mileage injuries. I've read that many runners hit 40 miles/week and suffer injuries, and my own experience is the same. Getting past that is hard, because as soon as I recover and then work back up to 40 I hurt something else. Is there a method to getting over that hump?
              "Running is a big question mark that's there each and every day. It asks you, 'Are you going to be a wimp or are you going to be strong today?' " - Peter Maher, Irish-Canadian Olympian
              mikeymike


                CallieB, you want to strive for consistency over a long period. If 40 is your breaking point, run no more than 85% of that--run 30-35 miles per week BUT do it every week for several months in a row. Avoid going up and down week to week. Try to string together a lot of months in a row of 130 miles. After 3-4 months of letting that sink in you can try to gradually increase the mileage but that alone will you a lot of the way to where you want to go. Success at the marathon has more to do with how many miles you ran in the last 12 months, than how many you ran in the last 12 weeks.

                Runners run

                  Thanks for the repsonse. I did high mileage during the summer months (August was the longest with ~173 miles), and that was when I started feeling the injuries. Since I am coming off my first marathon I will slowly build back up to 35 miles/week and then sustain that for a time before even thinking about BQ. Thanks again!
                  "Running is a big question mark that's there each and every day. It asks you, 'Are you going to be a wimp or are you going to be strong today?' " - Peter Maher, Irish-Canadian Olympian
                  mikeymike


                    CallieB, nice debut marathon by the way. How long have you been running, if you don't mind my asking? I ask because what a lot of new runners need more than anything is just time. It takes a long time to really build an aerobic base--it's not something that can be crammed. And you can continue to improve your aerobic endurance for years. If all you did was run 30-35 mpw, every week, until mid-summer, and then started getting ready for a fall marathon by doing nothing more than you did for your recent marathon--but this time starting with a much better base--you'd probably see huge improvements. Maybe not 20 minutes, but quite possibly.

                    Runners run

                      Thanks again for the great responses, guys. I used to XC a lot more often ... then I just got lazy with it Tongue I used to ride the stationary bike (and bike to and from work) a couple times a week -- I'll add that back into my schedule.
                      2009: BQ?
                        I've been thinking a lot about this, and decided to hold off on trying to BQ for a couple of years. I have a lot going on this year: graduating from law school, buying a house, studying for and taking the Maryland Bar, and starting my clerkship. 2007 will be a big enough year -- even without BQing Wink That said, I'm going to try to drop 12 minutes from my marathon time and try to run a 3:50:00 at Richmond. I added one day of full body weights and two days of cross training to my schedule. So right now I am doing 1 long run, 1 day of weights and cross training, 1 day of cross training, 1 day rest, 2 days of regular running outside, and 1 day of speedwork (that adds up to seven days, right?) Thank you, everyone, for your advice. If I break 3:51:00 this November I'll be happy Big grin
                        2009: BQ?


                        madness baby

                          Congrats on your decision, Trishie. I'm sure it was a hard one. Good luck with the bar and all those other exciting things. I found I could only walk on the treadmill and study for my oral comps, so yes, running and studying simultaneously might be difficult. Just kidding. Wink Good luck with your Richmond training!
                          deb


                          shonan marathon, girl

                            I agree about the cross training. Too much of just one exercise isn't good.

                            next race SHONAN MARATHON nov 3rd, 2012, OSAKA MARATHON nov 25th, i am aiming for nyc!

                            muse_runner


                            keep running.

                              Hey Trishie! I'd go with what the guys said and try to run higher mileage. I mean.... try to catch me! Wink You have to know that I post like a silly person to get that I'm kidding with you. I am not serious at all around here (ask these big willie boys). I still think you can BQ but you have to look at your training as something that will take a year, not a few months. I am training for Boston now and I am on an annual cycle of training and periodization. I have to take off 18 minutes to BQ. I'd never register for a race sooner than my last marathon, which was a year ago. To run higher mileage you need to slow down and put a lot more easy miles in. I think you could get away with not running any speedwork for portions of the year and just log some aerobic training in to keep your mind and motivation fresh. I've been doing trail running to keep my fitness "as-is" but now I have to hit the dreaded track to increase my fitness level. See girls we have company! Smile I'm trying to hit about 55 miles a week into my next cycle of training (mid summer) which is in about 2-3 months. For marathon training I'm looking at my "peak week" being about 63 miles (early winter). Right now I run 45 miles a week but I wasn't running that at all... I was struggling to run 36 miles a week and so I just decided to give my body and brain some time to relax. Rest and digest (see the siggy!) I ran a 1:55 half-marathon and about 7 months later ran my first marathon in 3:58. I think the miles help. But it's not for everyone and not everyone's body loves miles. My best friend runs 3-4 times a week and can run a 3:2x marathon. My peak mileage week in marathon training was 55 miles. I developed my own schedule based on a shitload of books I read about running and some stuff online. Trish, your 5k time shows me that all you have to do from here out is log miles. It's pretty simple for you. For me though, I am horrible at pacing so my 5k PR was a total fluke and I need to get there again. Callie, you have everything to BQ. You should log more miles. Crap if I could do a 10k like you.... pshhhhhhh man.... what I'd give for that! Thread jack query: While we're on the topic of interval training I was wondering what you guys think: I have a VDOT of 41 and I run my 800's in 3:34 (7:10 pace) but I seriously cannot run that right now for a 5k if my life depended on it. Should I do 5k pace intervals or chalk it up to needing time to let my body adapt to pace?
                              running until I hit 1900 miles for the year. whether fast or slow I will just run.
                              Scout7


                                http://home.hia.no/~stephens/traprin.htm http://home.hia.no/~stephens/str&end.htm Cross-training is one of those highly debated topics (like most things in running and training). Personally, I've always believed that if you want to be a competitive runner, you need to run. That being said, if you enjoy doing other activities, then by all means do them. Most of us are doing this stuff because we enjoy it. So do what you enjoy. But specificity is still the key. My $0.02.