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Giving it your all (Read 949 times)

    I've been thinking about these questions for a long time and wonder if anyone has any input: If you give a 100% effort in a race what happens at the 101% mark? Do you pass out or maybe collapse? (I assume so) Then why aren't runners passing out left and right at local 5k races? Are they not giving 101%? Well, maybe not local runners, but what about world class athletes? How come runners in 2nd - 3rd place don't pass out all the time? (I realize that they "sometimes" do but not often) I've wondered if I can make myself pass-out by running "too hard" and think i've come close at the end of some races (dizzy - barely able to walk) but I have a theory that your threshold prior to the pass-out mark is much higher than most people think... Or maybe the pain stops you at 92% who know? This has been bugging me for quite a while and I don't know if I'm asking it clear enough. But my main question is: How best do you know where that 99.9% effort is?
    mdmccat
    Teresadfp


    One day at a time

      Good questions! I've wondered the same thing. I do know that I watched several high school XC 5k races this year where a few kids (boys AND girls) were throwing up at the end, so I know they were giving it their all. I think of them when I'm dying on my long run, thinking I can't go any farhteer!


      My Hero

        Maybe the same thing will happen as when you take your RPM'S above the "Redline." You might blow a rod. Smile
          This is probably why I'm afraid of the phrase "maximum heart rate." Will it just burst if I push too hard? It's an interesting question though. I've always hated the phrase "give 110%" Such a cliche. If you're giving your all/doing your best, there's not any more you can give. On the other hand, the 10% isn't all that much more, so why not, "give 200%"
            Noakes first presented the "central governor" theory which says that the brain dictates how fast or long you can run for. basically it says that your brain monitors various critical levels in your body and makes you feel tired as these are reached/exceeded. he explains it in lore of running and has done a fair amount of research in recent years to back it up.
              I will have to look for that book. (thanks) I'm really interested in learning more about this. I do know that when my brain (central governor) says "enough is enough" I still actually have a little more left... How often have you heard about distracting your brain so you can actually run? I really don't want to encourage anyone to go out and hurt themselves, but where is the actual limit?
              mdmccat
              jeffdonahue


                I think that the answer is - it depends. First off, you can not give more than 100% effort. THe definition of 100% means that is all you have to give. If you are running as hard as you think and then step it up an notch (to what you are calling the 101% mark), then you really were not giving it 100% before. The reason people are puking and passing out is that the body is only designed to take so much stress at one time before something has to give. You mentioned 5K runners. When you run a 5K you are not going all out - it may feel that way, but you're not. Because when you think about it, you can run a single mile in a faster time than your 5K mile splits, and you can run a 100m dash faster than your one mile pace. But as I said the body can only take so much stress for so long and then it breaks down and slows down. So if you were to go "all out" you could keep that pace up for a certain amount of time, but then your body would slow down - the effort may still feel like it is everything you have but your pace would diminish.
                Lane


                  I gave 101%-once. My 4x800m relay team was going for the state record at the indoor state meet (in high school). I was the anchor leg, and my team was behind by quite a bit, but I decided that I'd rather try to get first and come in 3rd or 4th than stay comfortably in second. So I went after the leader. I did catch him, and instead of staying on his back and then outkicking him, I went past him to break the record. I was on pace to run a 2:00 going into the last 50m, but then I hit the wall. I literally lost control of my arms and legs and kept myself up basically by will alone. I managed to maintain conciousness until I fell over the finish line with a final split of around 2:08. I was in and out for a little while, and threw up a lot and couldn't run decently for the rest of the day. On the bright side, we won the state championship and broke the state record. I think to truly give more than 100%, and I think saying that is apt in this case, you have to be playing for something more than a PR or an age-group win. I was motivated by a ton of things above and beyond the usual.


                  Feeling the growl again

                    After you reach 100% you just slow down. By definition you can't go above maximal effort. If you're REALLY gutsy and ignore the signs and push on you can black out or pass out. There were a couple track races where I needed to be yanked up off the track at the finish, but it's really hard to push it that hard and bite it right at the finish....you never see people passing out BEFORE the line, so it makes sense that subconsciously people are always making sure they make it to the line. Personally, I think a lot of that you see at HS races is mental. I remember those days, and I remember it being a mental thing. You WANTED to look like the toughest, hardest working, so if there was the least bit of discomfort you wanted to be heaving or falling over. Pushing yourself to the very limit is a hard thing to do, and in the grand scheme of things a relatively minor variable compared to physical training. For example, I remember a point with .75 miles to go in my 10K PR where I had to make the conscious decision whether to slow a bit to make sure I made the finish line, or to maintain my current pace at all costs even if that meant passing out and logging a DNF. I decided to risk the DNF, and fortunately I made the line (and precisely 5 steps after it before my knees gave out). It could not have made more than 5-8sec difference. I needed those 5-8sec for sure, but it was training that made that race a PR by 90sec. As for Noakes and his central governor "theory", IMHO that is complete bunk. If that were true, the key to racing fast is to train your brain to not send these fatigue signals and allow damage to occur. Therefore, if this were true, we'd have our fastest athletes having all sorts of heart problems and dropping like flies on a regular basis. It just doesn't work that way. I'll save the drama, but suffice to say I've read most of what Noakes and his associates have published on the topic and there is ZERO scientific basis for it (I'm a biochemist so I feel comfortable making the blanket statement). It's a definition by exclusion...every time he can't explain something 100%, he says it proves the central governor must exist, although he has never actually identified it or shown direct evidence of the central governor. Although he generated a fair amount of fame for himself with Lore of Running, the truth is that if you read the physiology journals, a majority of his physiology colleagues now consider him somewhat of a crank due to his obsession with this unsupported central governor theory. Don't get me wrong, Lore of Running is a good book but with a few illogical and non-factual leaps (like that elite marathoners have a set number of performances in them before their times decline).

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     

                    I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                     

                      One famous runner, Alberto Salazar, might have been one of those rare individuals who could go into the dark area of that extra 1%. His ability to withstand pain is legendary. After then 1978 Falmouth race he was packed in ice and given his last rights. Amazingly he survived. Following his famous "Duel in the Sun" with Dick Beardley in the 1982 Boston Marathon, paramedics had to give him six liters of saline solution in an IV drip when his temperature dropped to 88°. Despite blazing heat with no cloud cover he took very little water during the entire race. He was never really the same after that as performances started falling off. Eventually he accepted the fact that he had lost "the gift" that once made him the world's top marathoner and moved up in distance to win the world's most famous ultra marathon, the 56-mile Comrades in South Africa. He knew that he no longer had the speed to compete with the world's best marathoners but believed that he could still tolerate pain longer than any man. Last June, at age 48, he suffered a heart attack that left him witout a pulse for 14 minutes. Normally you don't have a very good chance of surviving in good health if you go more than five minutes without a pulse. Again, Alberto dodged a bullett. Although his heart problems have been at least partly attributed to bad genes you have to wonder how much damage he did to himself through his ability to rise above pain. In the book, "Duel in the Sun", it was mentioned that he had also lost a great deal of lung function long before he had the heart attack.
                      Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
                      Scout7


                        Draw an eleven on the speaker dial.
                          Draw an eleven on the speaker dial.
                          Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

                          When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                          Trent


                          Good Bad & The Monkey

                            IMHO Plain and simple. 100% is the most you can give. If you give 101% then in the past you were only giving 99%.


                            Think Whirled Peas

                              Draw an eleven on the speaker dial.
                              I've done this for my RPE index...it goes to eleven and now I am one tougher.

                              Just because running is simple does not mean it is easy.

                               

                              Relentless. Forward. Motion. <repeat>

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