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| Garmin "Anal Retentiveness"? (Read 454 times) |
| view log October 5...Freak Out! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 11:13 AM |
| I have a friend with a 205 who doesn't upload her runs in any capacity...she doesn't log them anywhere, either. That perplexes me. For her the Forerunner is simply a means to know how far she's gone and what her pace is. |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Get down to 123#s and STAY there!
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k |
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Scout7 view logCPT Curmudgeon |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 12:22 PM |
| Quote from zoom-zoom on 5/12/2008 at 11:13 AM: I have a friend with a 205 who doesn't upload her runs in any capacity...she doesn't log them anywhere, either. That perplexes me. For her the Forerunner is simply a means to know how far she's gone and what her pace is.
Honestly, that's all I've been using mine for these days. I even dropped data fields from the screen, so it's just showing two (time and distance). I do record the runs here, however.
My opinion is that you're being silly. You are worshiping numbers at this point, and missing the forest for the trees. In the grand scheme of things, those little tenths matter not at all, and you're making them more important than they should be. ESPECIALLY for a race. Because in a race, it doesn't matter. The race doesn't care how many miles you think you ran. It only cares about when you start, and when you finish.
There's being anal, and there's being a slave to the numbers. This is the latter. You're getting yourself wrapped around the axle about things that really aren't going to make a lick of difference in the end. Do you really think that your success or failure is going to hinge on less than a third of a mile? No, of course not. So why worry about it? |
Amat victoria curam.
Sine labore nihil.
Dulcius ex asperis. |
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| view log Rudy, Rudy, Rudy |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 1:04 PM |
| Quote from Scout7 on 5/12/2008 at 12:22 PM: There's being anal, and there's being a slave to the numbers. This is the latter. You're getting yourself wrapped around the axle about things that really aren't going to make a lick of difference in the end. Do you really think that your success or failure is going to hinge on less than a third of a mile? No, of course not. So why worry about it?
Back into your non-technology hole (cave) crumudgeon. I've got a sundial wrist watch here to keep you on track.
It's in the minutia where you find the best information and who cares about forrests when you can focus on the beauty of a single tree. 
Marathon = 26 miles and 385 yards or 26.21875 miles. That .29 for Zoomy would have put her past the finish line at Milwaukee and one step closer to the beer tent. QED 
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Illegitimis non carborundum
2008 goals:
1) run a fall marathon (Indy)
2) stay injury free
3) PR 5K, 10K, HM & M
4) get my kids to start running with me
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posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:07 PM |
Dude.
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JoJo! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:15 PM
modified: 5/12/2008 at 2:16 PM |
Dudes & dudettes,
My issue is that I feel like I paid so much $$$ for a device that obviously is not accurate, more often than not. Yes, I guess it's cool to know distance/pace - blah, blah, blah - but I prefer to know the pace while I'm running to do certain workouts vs. after when I download. I do like the heart rate feature on the 305 because I feel like that has been accurate. And honestly - breath & heart poundation (for lack of a better word) in my pre-garmin days were my very accurate indicators & helped me pace very well (track workouts and long runs). That's why I put off getting one at first - I'd be a track or on a long run ... my garmin friend in the group would say "oh, we're 30 sec. too fast" or "we're 45 sec too slow" and I would - without a doubt in my mind if my body told a different story, say what I thought and sure enough - within a minute or so when the garmin "smartened up" they would say "oh, we're OK now" HOWEVER, we never changed pace with our feet! So, I guess I thought it would be a great device to keep a log easier, be somewhere on vacation & just run anywhere and know how far I'd gone, and to keep track of my pace (which it does) but I too, long for exacts, I think a lot of runners are anal (nothing to be ashamed of) & to those who are (me) the 0.0002 MATTERS! |
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| view log Hurdle the Dead |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:23 PM |
| Quote from Scout7 on 5/12/2008 at 12:22 PM:
My opinion is that you're being silly. You are worshiping numbers at this point, and missing the forest for the trees. In the grand scheme of things, those little tenths matter not at all, and you're making them more important than they should be.
Oh, ya think?
The part that cracked me up is that she got it backwards: no anal retentive in history has added phantom mileage to a race run on a certified course. They'd probably faint at the mere suggestion. They'd be more likely to rent a wheel the next day and go retrace the route to make sure it was at least the 26.2. Which they would, of course, log as exactly 42.195 kilometers, not an inch more or less, no matter what.
I'm still waiting for her to answer my question: is she going to log 25.7 for her first certified marathon if that's what the Garmin says?
Oh - and I'm completely stealing this quote. You should have copyrighted it and made some bumper stickers.
Quote from Scout7 on 5/12/2008 at 12:22 PM: The race doesn't care how many miles you think you ran. It only cares about when you start, and when you finish.
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E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
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| view log Hurdle the Dead |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:28 PM |
| Quote from MissPratt on 5/12/2008 at 2:15 PM:
My issue is that I feel like I paid so much $$$ for a device that obviously is not accurate, more often than not. Yes, I guess it's cool to know distance/pace - blah, blah, blah - but I prefer to know the pace while I'm running
It's accurate enough. Certainly better than any other option. Especially at short distances. Sure, if you run 26 miles, the minor variances add up.
By the way, if you use lap pace instead of pace, and set the autolap to a mile or a half mile, you'll have an almost perfect instantaneous pace reading. I managed to hit every mile split within a second or two doing that. It's sure not off by much. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
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Scout7 view logCPT Curmudgeon |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:32 PM |
Quote from CarmelRunner on 5/12/2008 at 1:04 PM:Back into your non-technology hole (cave) crumudgeon. I've got a sundial wrist watch here to keep you on track. It's in the minutia where you find the best information and who cares about forrests when you can focus on the beauty of a single tree. Marathon = 26 miles and 385 yards or 26.21875 miles. That .29 for Zoomy would have put her past the finish line at Milwaukee and one step closer to the beer tent. QED
Don't get hung up on numbers (being an enginerd this is a hard thing to say) and let your body guide you into the proper distance at that time.
Kind of zen like isn't it.
Everyone chant with me know - rommmmm, rommmmmmm,.......
I counter your statement with another of your statements.
So HA! |
Amat victoria curam.
Sine labore nihil.
Dulcius ex asperis. |
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| view log October 5...Freak Out! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:35 PM |
Did you guys look at my log...? I didn't add the distance to the race, I added it as a separate "run," just as I would if I did a brief warm-up or cool-down run adjacent to a race. I've been knocked off course for nearly two full weeks due to illness this year and I had a completely shitty race this weekend as the result of one of those illnesses--a race I trained my ass off for and didn't see the results that I trained for due to issues out of my control.
If claiming .29 miles keeps me that much ahead of the 1500 mile bunny for the year (or behind by that much less, as the case has been for most of the year), then I'm gonna claim it. I ran it. It's mine. I couldn't care less about the 25k race and how that .29 miles relates to that event, but I do care in the grand scheme of things about the miles I've run, even if it's just a fraction of a mile here and there. Otherwise I wouldn't use elevation correction when I upload my runs on Motion Based.
Don't some of you who use elevation correction to figure your mileage that you log here feel kinda anal retentive doing that? I'm not sure how that's different.  |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Get down to 123#s and STAY there!
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k |
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| view log |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:42 PM
modified: 5/12/2008 at 2:44 PM |
The thing is you didn't run it. Well, not according to the only measurement that actually matters in this case anyway.
And how does elevation correction help figure out mileage? I've never heard of that. I just log what I ran and call it a day. |
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| view log October 5...Freak Out! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:47 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/12/2008 at 2:42 PM: The thing is you didn't run it. Well, not according to the only measurement that actually matters in this case anyway.
And how does elevation correction help figure out mileage? I've never heard of that. I just log what I ran and call it a day.
But if I didn't run the tangents exactly I *did* run it, right? Don't most people end up running a bit further in any race, particularly if they are dodging other runners at spots on the course?
Elevation correction almost always adds a little bit to my runs, especially if I run a route with more hills. I'd bet that the Nashville folks log extra distance from that all the time. |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Get down to 123#s and STAY there!
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k |
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| view log |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 2:59 PM
modified: 5/12/2008 at 3:04 PM |
| Quote from zoom-zoom on 5/12/2008 at 2:47 PM: But if I didn't run the tangents exactly I *did* run it, right?
Nope.
And I am lost on your whole elevation correction theory. I'm pretty sure the Nashville folks are not adding phantom miles to their runs, except for Thunder who sometimes uses his imagination to measure trail courses.
What I put in my log is the most accurate number I have available to me. If I'm running one of my regular routes AND wearing my garmin, it almost never says exactly what the route is measured at. Sometimes it measures long...usually it measures short...whenever I upload to MB, MB usually says it was slightly longer than what the watch says, I figure this is because the watch loses signal when you go under bridges etc and MB "connects the dots"...whatever. At the end of the day I just pick the distance I have the most confidence in and go with it. If i'm running an unmeasured route and going by time, I estimate. If I'm running an unmeasured route and using garmie then I log what it says. If I'm running one of my measured routes, I log what it's measured at, if I'm running a measured race course...well duh I log what the distance of the race was.
mta: I'm not sure why I even care except that I find your obsessing over the imaginary .29 miles a bit frustrating. Scout and JK summed up my feelings pretty well--you're obsessing over numbers for the sake of numbers and missing the big picture. And it is your log and you can do what you want but then you started a thread asking for opinions on it so here we are... |
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| view log Bif! Bam! Pow! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 3:09 PM |
This is hilarious!
Do you really think that your success or failure is going to hinge on less than a third of a mile? No, of course not. So why worry about it?
There are days when Ihave say 10 miles on the schedule and get to my street and garmin says 9.85 and I will run laps to the mailbox and back just to get my 10.0...and I know they dont matter....except mentally to me. The worse a run went, the more likely I am to make sure I got "at least"
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Beware the Pink Boxing Gloves of DOOM!
"It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds" - Captain Hammer
2008 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM, M
Faster than a speeding toddler..... |
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| view log Hurdle the Dead |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 3:11 PM |
| Quote from mikeymike on 5/12/2008 at 2:42 PM: The thing is you didn't run it.
Bingo.
Quote from mikeymike on 5/12/2008 at 2:42 PM:
And how does elevation correction help figure out mileage? I've never heard of that.
It doesn't.
This came up once and Trent (I think) did the math to show just how much elevation change you'd have to cover to add appreciable mileage. The conclusion was you'd pretty much have to be jogging in the Himalayas. Not to mention the fact that elevation correction just indicates mileage you actually *did* run - doesn't just add mileage you may or may not have run.
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It's your log, Zoom. You can put anything you want in it. I've considered wearing a Garmin and counting steps to the fridge and back to get a beer. Who cares? Doesn't affect anybody else.
But you started a thread and asked for our opinions. Which you obviously don't really want. You just want people to tell you what you want to hear.
Okay, fine. So count the mileage. And when the Garmin strangely under-reports mileage? Well, just ignore it. Garmin's probably 100% accurate when it adds miles, and just broken on those days when it subtracts. Which is wonderfully convenient.
Quote from zoom-zoom on 5/12/2008 at 2:35 PM:Did you guys look at my log...? I didn't add the distance to the race, I added it as a separate "run," just as I would if I did a brief warm-up or cool-down run adjacent to a race.
Bottom line: you have no idea if you ran that mileage or not. Or how much of it. All you know for certain is that you were on a certified course.
And comparing Phantom Maybe-Miles to warm-up mileage makes zero sense. You obviously ran the warm up mileage. Of course you count that. Everybody does that. Nobody does this.
You're obviously getting defensive on this so I'll find my way out of your thread. I don't mean to ruffle your feathers. But next time, if you don't want opinions, don't ask. You had to know somebody was going to point out the obvious problems with this one. And they are blitheringly obvious.
In the end, none of it matters. Its your log. Knock yourself out. Mikey summed it up perfectly:
Quote from mikeymike on 5/12/2008 at 2:59 PM:And it is your log and you can do what you want but then you started a thread asking for opinions on it so here we are...
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E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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"The past is nothing but a series of recollections; it does not own you ... if we are prisoners of the past, we are jailer as well."
~~ Jack Kerley, The Hundredth Man
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| view log October 5...Freak Out! |
posted: 5/12/2008 at 3:12 PM |
| Quote from Ennay on 5/12/2008 at 3:09 PM: This is hilarious!
There are days when Ihave say 10 miles on the schedule and get to my street and garmin says 9.85 and I will run laps to the mailbox and back just to get my 10.0...and I know they dont matter....except mentally to me. The worse a run went, the more likely I am to make sure I got "at least"
Ha, I will run an extra couple of blocks to hit my mileage goal for a run, even if it means running past my house a ways and having to walk back (cool down walks are good, anyhow).  |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Get down to 123#s and STAY there!
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k |
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