RunningAHEAD - Topic: Hypothetical maximum

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Hypothetical maximum - what do you think? (Read 951 times)

mikeymike

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posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:09 PM

Quote from Teresadfp on 6/2/2008 at 4:22 PM:

That's what I've been telling DS15, but right now it's hard for him to believe. He has trained hard for 2 1/2 years and does quite well. All of a sudden, though, there's another sophomore at a rival school who JUST started running this season, and ran his SECOND two-mile race (3200 m to be exact) ever in 9:55. DS's time was 9:57, a PR by 6 seconds. The same boy ran his FIRST mile race (1600 m) in 4:29!! DS's time this past week was 4:35 (another PR by 6 seconds). I just tell DS to keep up the hard work, because it will pay off in the long run. The other boy is going to have to be careful not to do too much too soon, or he will get injured.

Teresa, remind your son that Brian Sell's high school 2-mile PR was 10:06.

Lank view log	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:14 PM
	Quote from meaghanchan on 6/3/2008 at 5:53 PM: Text Nice post. I'll admit there is gender bias so if I run a 20 minute 5k, a woman running a 20 minute 5k has a more impressive performance. I'm sure there's some chart that someone has for equivalent performances so my comment that you referenced was overly general. Can you apply the same theory to height? To foot size? To another physical attribute? I don't think so. I thought the comparison to art was a good one but bringing basketball into it was where you lost me. It takes much more athleticism to play basketball and while training in basketball will certainly make you better it's nowhere near the correlation that training yields for running. The level of athleticism you need to run around a track or through a neighborhood is very small. And I'm a cynic so Jack Daniels giving the standard four quandrant approach to categorize runners is designed to (i) sell books and (ii) give people excuses. But this is an interesting discussion and your post made me think.
	"Good-looking people have no spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we're smarter." - Lester Bangs

Lank view log	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:16 PM
	Quote from mikeymike on 6/3/2008 at 6:09 PM: Teresa, remind your son that Brian Sell's high school 2-mile PR was 10:06. And look what happened to that no-talent.
	"Good-looking people have no spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we're smarter." - Lester Bangs

mikeymike

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posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:18 PM

Quote from meaghanchan on 6/3/2008 at 5:53 PM:

It's tempting to say that every person who beats us in a race trained harder, because it takes away the notion that our own gentics might limit us in some way, but are you really willing to say that the reason all the world records (at least to my knowledge) are held by men is that women just don't train hard enough? And if this isn't a fair comparison- why not? If one kind of physiological advantage could actually impact a person's race effort, positively or negatively, then why not others?

Not to speak for Lank but I think the point is that worrying about how much talent you or your competition has is to impose limits on your own potential. If you're interested in closing the gap between your own genetic potential and your current race times, then you do the work and don't think about talent. If you assume that those who beat you did so because they outworked you, then you can continue to make progress. It's about controlling what you can control and not worrying about what you can't. The fact is almost everyone talking about talent here is not even scratching the surface of their own potential.

Of course there are genetic differences between men and women; and between different populations of men; and different populations of women. But the individual differences are much greater. Deana Kastor can beat 99.99% of men at the marathon. And not just because she has "talent."

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:21 PM
	Quote from mikeymike on 6/3/2008 at 6:18 PM: If you're interested in closing the gap between your own genetic potential and your current race times, then you do the work and don't think about talent. POD Amen
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:33 PM modified: 6/3/2008 at 6:45 PM
	Quote from Lank on 6/3/2008 at 6:16 PM: Quote from mikeymike on 6/3/2008 at 6:09 PM: Teresa, remind your son that ~~Brian Sell's~~ Globule's high school 2-mile PR was 10:06. And look what happened to that no-talent. Fixed. And not for the better.
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:34 PM
	Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 6/3/2008 at 6:33 PM: Fixed. And not for the better. Must be the trumpet.
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:35 PM
	Quote from Marcus L S on 6/3/2008 at 6:34 PM: Must be the ~~trumpet~~ trombone. Fixed. And for the better.
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:41 PM
	Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 6/3/2008 at 6:35 PM: Fixed. And for the better. DAMN. I knew that too. I really did. My brain is so fried right now I have my horns mixed up.
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 6/3/2008 at 6:45 PM
	Quote from Marcus L S on 6/3/2008 at 6:41 PM: My brain is so fried right now I have my horns mixed up. There's something snarky/funny to be done with this, but I'm not sure what.
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

Mr R	posted: 6/3/2008 at 7:01 PM
	Actually, basketball (and other skill sports) are less limited by athleticism than running. There are no limits to how skilled you can become in a sport (or art, for that matter). With non-skill sports, the limitations of your body are a factor. Weights, sprints, running--they all involve genetic limits imposed by your body. At the high school level, it's true that almost anyone can be successful in running with hard work, but as you get to higher and higher ranks, you'll see that a larger percentage of athletes are training about as hard as humanly possible. Hall didn't beat Sell in November because he's a harder worker. Hall was a 4 minute miler in high school. That counts for something.
	What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles, Miles of Trials. How could they be expected to understand that? -John Parker

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 6/3/2008 at 7:03 PM
	Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 6/3/2008 at 6:45 PM: There's something snarky/funny to be done with this, but I'm not sure what. You disappoint me. I set myself up and you let me off the hook. Where the hell is Scout when you need him?
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 6/3/2008 at 7:05 PM
	Quote from Marcus L S on 6/3/2008 at 7:03 PM: Where the hell is Scout when you need him? Shacked up with your mom at a Motel 6.
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 6/3/2008 at 7:06 PM
	Quote from Mr R on 6/3/2008 at 7:01 PM: Actually, basketball (and other skill sports) are less limited by athleticism than running. There are no limits to how skilled you can become in a sport (or art, for that matter). With non-skill sports, the limitations of your body are a factor. Weights, sprints, running--they all involve genetic limits imposed by your body. I can't agree with that.
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 6/3/2008 at 7:07 PM
	Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 6/3/2008 at 7:05 PM: Shacked up with your mom at a Motel 6. Oh man, you busted the wrapper on Marcus' mom jokes. That was officially the first. Well done!
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

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