1

Tempo running (Read 969 times)

    I found a cool chart just now, with various lengths of tempos (not just your standard 20 min tempo) associated with certain race paces.

     

    Thought I would share.


    Interval Junkie --Nobby

      This is perfect.  Tempo is such a mystery to me; finding that LT line.

       

      About the only thing I'm really able to figure out in a run is: "okay, quads burning now -- I must be going too fast [by a lot]."  This chart should help.

      2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

      Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.

        Interesting.  I thought that the VO2 Max number that the RunningAhead workout summary showed was specific to me and took my weight and all kinds of other things into account.  I guess not since looking up my last race the VDOT on the chart corresponds exactly to my time that I just ran my 5K in.

         

        My VDOT is 43, so I look at the chart and it shows a 8:23 pace for a 30 minute tempo for VDOT 40 and a 7:35 pace for a 30 minute tempo for VDOT 45.  If I average those it comes out to 7:59.  I was planning on my next tempo run being a 4 miler starting at 8:30 pace and increasing to a 7:45 pace so I guess that puts it right in the ballpark, maybe just a tiny bit slow.  Dumb luck more than anything I'm sure!

         

        This would work for increasing pace tempos as long as the pace increase is within reason wouldn't it?  Instead of an 8:00 pace for 4 miles, I've been starting a little slower and picking up the pace a little each mile.  8:15, 8:05, 7:55, 7:45 would average out to an 8:00 pace, is one way better than the other?

        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

          ha.. I was just about to start to look for this chart. Perfect timing. Thanks Jeff.

          Dont call it a comeback

            There's going to be a +/- 10s range for all of these paces, given how you feel for a certain day (not to mention terrain, quality of PRs, etc.) That's why your plan of easing into the tempo run is the best, npaden. That's what experienced runners do.

             

            We don't know exactly what our tempo pace will be, so we start on the slower end for the first mile or so, then let our body find a good rhythm. As we warm up and then as we begin to feel the tug of the end of the workout, a natural pace acceleration is to be expected, even if the effort level doesn't perceptibly increase.

             

            Glad you guys find it helpful. I did a ton of tempo running at various distances this summer and was interested to find that most of it was right on the paces that are shown in this chart.

              That table is very useful.  

               

              I may have posted this before but this guy has a very useful spreadsheet that calculates Daniels' training paces, tempo paces, etc etc based on your race performance.  It's gives the exact same data as the table in the article.  Check out the instructions tab before you start changing things around.  Just a huge amount of information  - not only Daniels' stuff but McMillan training paces and Friel guidelines as well as algorithms to predict impact of weight gain/loss and temperature variations on race performance.  It's all very nerdy but personally I find fun to play with after a Sat or Sun morning run.

               

              http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html

                The only issue I have with Daniels' tables is that they seem to always tell me I'm a wimp at the marathon distance.  Smile  My mile, 2-mile, 5k and even 10k kind of line up more or less nicely, but based on those he's always saying I should be a lot faster marathon runner! 

                 

                The chart showing tempo pace vs. VDOT and duration is very good, though.  Is it in Running Formula?  I don't remember seeing it there, but it's been a while since I cracked it open.

                - Joe

                We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.

                  The only issue I have with Daniels' tables is that they seem to always tell me I'm a wimp at the marathon distance.  Smile  My mile, 2-mile, 5k and even 10k kind of line up more or less nicely, but based on those he's always saying I should be a lot faster marathon runner! 

                   

                  The chart showing tempo pace vs. VDOT and duration is very good, though.  Is it in Running Formula?  I don't remember seeing it there, but it's been a while since I cracked it open.

                   

                  I personally think that his marathon predictions are too fast. I think McMillan's are better.

                   

                  I've heard Daniels say that marathoners should be running 120ish mpw, so maybe his marathon predictions assume that kind of mileage? Also -- I do think that his predictions for the marathon are probably close if you look at the race from a pure standpoint of physiological capacity, but since the perfect race is so hard to run in a marathon, and you get so relatively few attempts to nail it, backing off a couple minutes is practically always a good idea.

                    That table is very useful.  

                     

                    I may have posted this before but this guy has a very useful spreadsheet that calculates Daniels' training paces, tempo paces, etc etc based on your race performance.  It's gives the exact same data as the table in the article.  Check out the instructions tab before you start changing things around.  Just a huge amount of information  - not only Daniels' stuff but McMillan training paces and Friel guidelines as well as algorithms to predict impact of weight gain/loss and temperature variations on race performance.  It's all very nerdy but personally I find fun to play with after a Sat or Sun morning run.

                     

                    http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html

                     

                    VERY neat spreadsheet!

                     

                    There is a TON of information there.  According to that I will go sub 22 on my 5K if I just lose 8 lbs! Wink

                    Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                      VERY neat spreadsheet!

                       

                      There is a TON of information there.  According to that I will go sub 22 on my 5K if I just lose 8 lbs! Wink

                       

                      Joking aside, yes, weight is a huge factor in performance.  Getting rid of excess weight, in my humble experience, has been the best quick/dirty/cheap way to get a lot faster.  Just lose it in a smart way!

                       

                      I have an office mate whom I've been informally coaching for the last several months.  In that time he has lost 20 pounds and dropped his marathon time from about 4:00 to 3:30.  Right now I think, conservatively, he is fit to run 3:20.  We'll see in Dallas in 6 weeks.  Now, he has done the training and is taking care of the "running side" of things, but also the impact of that lost weight is enormous.  He's comfortably running faster in training now than he was racing a few months ago.

                      - Joe

                      We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.


                      Doc, my tooth hurts

                        Here is also a quick calculator that I use all of the time so I know when my VDOT goes up or not

                         

                        http://www.runbayou.com/jackd.htm

                         

                        I feel like for me that it is pretty accurate up to half marathon, I haven't run any races longer since I started using it exclusively to train.  For tempo runs I don't try to hit the exact pace every mile, but do the usual where my first 10 minutes might be slower than what VDOT says it should be and then the last part is faster. I always feel like I finish tempos strong doing it this way and usually have to slow down just so I know I can finish the workout strong. Leaving nothing in the tank is for races.

                         

                         

                        Joking aside, yes, weight is a huge factor in performance.  Getting rid of excess weight, in my humble experience, has been the best quick/dirty/cheap way to get a lot faster.  Just lose it in a smart way!

                         

                        I have an office mate whom I've been informally coaching for the last several months.  In that time he has lost 20 pounds and dropped his marathon time from about 4:00 to 3:30.  Right now I think, conservatively, he is fit to run 3:20.  We'll see in Dallas in 6 weeks.  Now, he has done the training and is taking care of the "running side" of things, but also the impact of that lost weight is enormous.  He's comfortably running faster in training now than he was racing a few months ago.

                         

                         I lost 20 pounds and dropped my 5k time by about 1:30 in 3 months. From 20minutes to 18:30. Weight loss does work and I feel like eating better makes workouts go better.

                          I'm glad my college coach didn't find this.  My value for the 1500 would have been 70.  I would have had to run a 20 minute tempo run at 5:13 pace.  BRUTAL.  I'm not sure I could have raced that fast for four miles.  

                           

                          I'm going to use this chart and take the lower number between two different races, thank you very much.


                          Feeling the growl again

                            I'm glad my college coach didn't find this.  My value for the 1500 would have been 70.  I would have had to run a 20 minute tempo run at 5:13 pace.  BRUTAL.  I'm not sure I could have raced that fast for four miles.  

                             

                            I'm going to use this chart and take the lower number between two different races, thank you very much.

                             

                            Well, the 10K listed for 70 is 31:00.  I ran a 30:57 and a 4-mile tempo run at exactly 5:13 average 4 days apart.  So that sounds pretty accurate.  I think people with natural speed over shorter distances throw it off.  I'm impressed with your ~4:00 1500 time, I could not have come close to that if my life depended on it.

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              Well, the 10K listed for 70 is 31:00.  I ran a 30:57 and a 4-mile tempo run at exactly 5:13 average 4 days apart.  So that sounds pretty accurate.  I think people with natural speed over shorter distances throw it off.  I'm impressed with your ~4:00 1500 time, I could not have come close to that if my life depended on it.

                               

                              I believe that's why my coach normally suggests to use a longer race distance when determining training paces. This is especially true when training for longer races, or that are more endurance than speed based. 

                              vegefrog


                                Helpful! Thanks for sharing!!

                                 

                                Looks like my VDOT  is 42 and according to the tempo chart, I'm doing mine fairly close to the correct pace. I always tend to slow myself down a little bit on tempo runs even if they feel too easy because I'm not sure exactly how to get the most out of them. Looking at this chart makes me feel more comfortable with speeding it up a little.

                                1