Forums >Racing>Importance of weekly mileage
Why is it sideways?
Actually, yes. I wore typical American shoes for a while and that's when I got most injury problems. The truth, with me, is when I went BACK to Japanese ASICS that my Achilles finally started to get better. Of course, that's not the ONLY thing I did so I can't really single out... When Yoko Shibui was training in Flagstaff, one evening, she and I..... Oh, no, not that story! Greg McMillan came to visit the house we were staying. I have a picture of Greg holding up one of the thinnest adidas shoes he had which he only wore to walk around but not to run in--he does NOT believe in minimalist shoes. Both Yoko and her coach, Nabe, trash his talk and tried to convince him that he should go minimalist shoes. So here it is, Greg is holding up his shoes and Yoko is pinching her nose, waving the "smell" away from her. Good times... I guess my point was; including myself saying minimalist shoes, it is so tricky that we really can't say "rule of thumb". In fact, I had never (I think) told any of my runners to go minimalist. I may have suggested or pointed out, but never told them to switch. And one of my favorite shoes right now is ASICS Sky Speed which is NOT minimalist shoes at all. We'll see if I get hurt in my Achilles next year or so... The thing is; I just cannot wear one of those "typical thick and bulky American training shoes" because I feel so far off the ground and actually do feel unstable. But Sky Speed feel different. I can't explain; but so I wear them. I do take cautious, however, to make sure I switch back to minimalist shoes periodically to "stretch out".
Actually, yes. I wore typical American shoes for a while and that's when I got most injury problems. The truth, with me, is when I went BACK to Japanese ASICS that my Achilles finally started to get better. Of course, that's not the ONLY thing I did so I can't really single out...
When Yoko Shibui was training in Flagstaff, one evening, she and I..... Oh, no, not that story! Greg McMillan came to visit the house we were staying. I have a picture of Greg holding up one of the thinnest adidas shoes he had which he only wore to walk around but not to run in--he does NOT believe in minimalist shoes. Both Yoko and her coach, Nabe, trash his talk and tried to convince him that he should go minimalist shoes. So here it is, Greg is holding up his shoes and Yoko is pinching her nose, waving the "smell" away from her. Good times...
I guess my point was; including myself saying minimalist shoes, it is so tricky that we really can't say "rule of thumb". In fact, I had never (I think) told any of my runners to go minimalist. I may have suggested or pointed out, but never told them to switch. And one of my favorite shoes right now is ASICS Sky Speed which is NOT minimalist shoes at all. We'll see if I get hurt in my Achilles next year or so... The thing is; I just cannot wear one of those "typical thick and bulky American training shoes" because I feel so far off the ground and actually do feel unstable. But Sky Speed feel different. I can't explain; but so I wear them. I do take cautious, however, to make sure I switch back to minimalist shoes periodically to "stretch out".
I agree with all of this, and I think that you are right that probably this rule of thumb is less a "rule" and more of a suggestion to think about. If achilles issues were that simple, I doubt it would have taken two people as "smart" as we are YEARS to figure out how to respond to them.
I have been liking NB 890 because it gives me a bit of a heel, but the rest of the shoe is flexible and "minimal." It works for me--not sure why! (And there were also other contributing factors to my AT finally disappearing--like rest and recovery and cutting my mileage a bit and the simple magic of time.)
One thing I do know: achilles tendinitis sucks. Hope you keep yours away!
Not necessarily.... Seems logic (yeah, Mr. Running Logic guy!! ;o)) but not necessarily. For one, my Achilles problem, which I had to live with for more than 5 years, went away when I switched to low-profile low heel minimalist shoes. You may face initial "growing pain" at first but, in the end, it is not true. If anything, shoes with "too big heel" would eventually cause Achilles problem because that'll shorten your Achilles. I know what you're trying to say here; but that's a bit too hasty. It's not so much of shoes with too big heel would cause knee problem; we know that it's more of a heel-striking running form, which is enhanced greatly by shoes with too much cushion. I'd say shoes with too big heel would actually cause shortening of Achilles tendon and eventually cause Achilles problem. Also, shoes with too big heel tend to have so much junk in between (to stabilize the instability caused by too much cushion) that could lead to Plantar Fasciitis.
Not necessarily.... Seems logic (yeah, Mr. Running Logic guy!! ;o)) but not necessarily. For one, my Achilles problem, which I had to live with for more than 5 years, went away when I switched to low-profile low heel minimalist shoes. You may face initial "growing pain" at first but, in the end, it is not true. If anything, shoes with "too big heel" would eventually cause Achilles problem because that'll shorten your Achilles.
I know what you're trying to say here; but that's a bit too hasty. It's not so much of shoes with too big heel would cause knee problem; we know that it's more of a heel-striking running form, which is enhanced greatly by shoes with too much cushion. I'd say shoes with too big heel would actually cause shortening of Achilles tendon and eventually cause Achilles problem. Also, shoes with too big heel tend to have so much junk in between (to stabilize the instability caused by too much cushion) that could lead to Plantar Fasciitis.
Nobby, I have to wonder. I've run in relatively big-heeled shoes for the last three years and have never had anything approximating Achilles discomfort. The only work shoes I have ever felt comfortable in are shoes with a fairly significant heel.
Every winter, my right calf goes bad, but the Achilles remains unfazed (thankfully!). You would think that the Achilles would follow the calf into the crapper, yet it never does. My sense is that this has to do with the heel.
"If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus
not bad for mile 25
I fear I have derailed this thread to a shoe discussion, but my two cents...the motion control feature induced an unnatural side torsion that took a heavy toll on my knees. Yeah, heavy.
I've got a fever...
Luke, we don't know a lot about your running without being able to see your log and your recent race times (yeah, like I should talk). But it's quite possible that although you're quite capable of 7:30 and 8:30 paces on your short and long runs, those paces might be a little too brisk for you day in and day out. If you slow down, you may feel like you'll be able to run more miles day in and day out. And as has been amply said in this thread, increasing you mileage is the single biggest thing you can do to improve your racing.
On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.
Since we are all the way off topic, I will link this excellent piece by Science of Sport on barefoot running. It is particularly good on the "meta-science" behind how we evaluate our claims about shoe-choice, etc.
Speaking of the "logic" of running discussion, it is interesting to note that we have gone pretty directly from the most central issue in training (weekly mileage) to perhaps the most peripheral issue in training--but most important issue when it comes to marketing and $$--shoe choice.
We are well trained monkeys.
Options,Account, Forums
Since we are all the way off topic, I will link this excellent piece by Science of Sport on barefoot running. It is particularly good on the "meta-science" behind how we evaluate our claims about shoe-choice, etc. ...
From the linked piece
...when people polarize a debate into one of two extremes, they're both wrong. In science, there's always middle-ground...
I always hated how people polarized the debate about whether the sun orbited the earth or vice-versa. There is always the middle-ground -- which in this case turns out to be the more accurate ground -- that they both orbit the common center of mass. (Which just happens to be the sun, more or less )
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
From the linked piece I always hated how people polarized the debate about whether the sun orbited the earth or vice-versa. There is always the middle-ground -- which in this case turns out to be the more accurate ground -- that they both orbit the common center of mass. (Which just happens to be the sun, more or less )
To be fair, the debate about the orbits was not a scientific debate... it was a debate between a religious view on the one hand and scientific view on the other.
Feeling the growl again
There is always the middle-ground
In science?? Er, this is not correct. At all. Science is not a negotiation.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Are you saying that you believe the ancient Greek astronomers were not scientific, or did not engage in scientific debate?
I was quoting Jeff's article, so the quotation really ought to be impugned to it, more than to me.
Don't take personal offense. My computer will note paste in IE for some reason so to get the quote I had to do that.
No, where did I say that?
The ancient Greek astronomers, [surely, with some hard-headed sorts holding out], once exposed to the reasonings of the modern copernican thinkers would have been convinced. But they, of course, all died centuries earlier.
The Copernicans were arguing against a religious Aristotelianism, not against (or with Aristotle).
Also: I agree that in science there is not always a middle ground, but this is HARDLY the point of the article. Of course, in message board land, there is much less middle ground than in science.
To bring this ship back around...
The purpose of running more frequently is two-fold: 1) It lets you get in more overall miles in a training period while still allowing your body to recover and adapt to the stresses you put on it; 2) The more frequently you run, the more opportunity you have to "practice" running, and therefore the more you will be able to improve over a period of time.
It may seem logical at first glance that the most important thing is try to simulate your race in training, but the truth is that you cannot really do this on a consistent basis. Running puts stress on the body, and it needs to recover from that stress. During this period of recovery, your body develops adaptations that will allow it to better handle those stresses for the next time. However, injuries occur (most of the time, at least) because you put too much stress on your body in too short a period of time, and did not provide enough recovery.
So, what you need to do is find a balance between getting in the practice time while trying to not overstress your body to the point where it starts to break down (gets injured). Now, this balance is actually multi-pronged, because the amount of stress you put on your body is related to both the miles/time you run, and the effort level at which you run them. So, with that in mind, you need to focus on getting in as much time on your feet by keeping your effort level lower for most of the time, and keeping most of the runs at a shorter length.
Tomorrow will be worse
With respect to running speed, it might also be helpful for someone to write out a good, solid explanation of speed work vs stamina work vs endurance work, when you do each (as in, what stage of a training plan) and why. That said, I know I'll get lots more response from throwing out something that's not (or at least not quite) right, so here goes:
Training plan:
Step 1: get off couch, see doctor to make sure you won't die.
Step 2: build-up - run lots of miles at a pace slow enough that you can keep running lots of miles. This improves endurance - running too fast tears muscles down too much to recover, risking injury. Your muscles will learn to recover faster as you get fitter, but you're not ready yet. You can mix in some moderately fast runs for shorter distances, but nothing close to what would be considered a sprint.
Step 3: when comfortable with high(er) mileage for a while, add some more speed work into the routine. Intervals and sprint repeats. Keep doing the moderately fast stuff (tempo, fartleks), and consider progression runs on moderately long runs. If your long run for the week is longer than you've done very often before, don't increase the pace at the end. If it's shorter than normal and you feel good, pick it up for the last couple miles.
Step 4: run less miles at a comfortable pace. You should now be very fit, so you'll be running faster, but you shouldn't be trying harder. Be impressed with your fitness and show off by passing other runners in the street whenever possible.
Step 5: race your butt off
Step 6: drink beer, recover. Then drink beer and run slowly. The weaving will ensure you cover enough miles
Step 7: return to step 1