Forums >Racing>Commit to a sub-4 marathon in 2011 -- then run it
mcanyon
Sorry to hear about the tendinitis. It is amazing how much rest helps, but the year is early, and I wouldn't push something that doesn't feel right. I had a similar issue in 2009, ran the marathon anyway in 4:55. Part of that was weather (90 F) and part just keeping it easy. I decided by mile 5 not to try for 4 hours and just enjoy the experience
the original point was to create a community of folks who would pick a race in the future for an attempt, discuss how stuff was going, get some good luck mojo going as various race weekends approached, and report back after.
How is everyone else doing? Would be interested in hearing what plan you are using if any. Most threads on RA have a high proportion of experienced marathoners/runners who have built up their endurance miles over years of running. I imagine there are several here that are like me, on again, off again runners where 4 hours is a stretch. Since I am starting from scratch again and have time limits, I don't see how I have the time to get to 50 miles in a week this year. I hope to get a far amount of 30+ mile weeks, consisting of a slow long run, some MP runs, and occasional tempo runs. For a 4 hour marathon, that will be 9:09 MP, 10ish long, and 8:30 tempo.
Also considering to start looking at HR training with time instead of miles. Hard to change when you have this stigma of miles, but have read enough to realize that time may be more important than 18 versus 20 miles.
2018 Goals:
Get Lucky Half 1:47:59
Grandmas Marathon
Fall Marathon - Twin Cities??
Sorry to hear about the tendinitis. It is amazing how much rest helps, but the year is early, and I wouldn't push something that doesn't feel right. I had a similar issue in 2009, ran the marathon anyway in 4:55. Part of that was weather (90 F) and part just keeping it easy. I decided by mile 5 not to try for 4 hours and just enjoy the experience How is everyone else doing? Would be interested in hearing what plan you are using if any. Most threads on RA have a high proportion of experienced marathoners/runners who have built up their endurance miles over years of running. I imagine there are several here that are like me, on again, off again runners where 4 hours is a stretch. Since I am starting from scratch again and have time limits, I don't see how I have the time to get to 50 miles in a week this year. I hope to get a far amount of 30+ mile weeks, consisting of a slow long run, some MP runs, and occasional tempo runs. For a 4 hour marathon, that will be 9:09 MP, 10ish long, and 8:30 tempo. Also considering to start looking at HR training with time instead of miles. Hard to change when you have this stigma of miles, but have read enough to realize that time may be more important than 18 versus 20 miles.
I am a relative newbie at running as well - only been running reasonably regularly for the past 18 months but very low mileage. Ran 300kms in 2009, ~1400 kms in 2010. This year, i hope to be running atleast 2000 kms to enforce maintenance of a certain consistency in my training. My weekly menu is very similar to yours, with 30 mpw average, over an LSD run, a tempo, an easy run and few intervals once in a while. My lack of endurance is clearly telling, as i just dont have the aerobic base to truly "race" - yet. A great deal of all the running i do these days is just to improve that base.Actually training when you are a newbie is a lot of fun because you see gains from dedicated training much faster than the elites here as they are closer to maxing out their potential than we are.
I changed my footstrike from heel to mid and i think it has helped my running significantly. I am not particularly light (5'11, ~155 lbs) so it helps that midfoot running reduces the pounding on my knees. Atleast it feels like it does. This is a contributory factor to increases in my speed over the same distance.
So coming to training plan - i intend using Pfitzinger 18/55 over a 4 month period with a July 3rd Gold Coast Marathon as objective. Baselining my current fitness level will be the Tokyo marathon which i am running in less than 3 weeks from now so a lot of what i do over the 4 months after that will depend on how that one goes. I also use the Mcmillan calc to guide my training pace.
I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.
I think I've pretty much settled on mine.
I've decided against Pfitz 18/55. Number one, I don't like running 4-5 days a week. I would much rather schedule myself to run 6-7 days a week, and if something happens where I can't run on a day (which it does more often than not...Like today where it is freaking white death outside), it's not so big a deal. Number two is that the mid-week 14 milers are kind of a dealbreaker for me. That's a lot of time for me to be running midweek.
I have 34 weeks till Chicago Marathon. My plan, based primarily on Brad Hudson, is this:
"Pre-training phase" (do for the next 14 weeks, until 18 weeks away).
4 runs of 55-75 minutes easy, with short hill sprints in up to two of them
1 run of 90-105 minutes easy, potentially with up to 3-4x12 min @ tempo (HMP) with 3 min jog recovery
1 run of 120-150 minutes easy
1 rest day
At the 18 week away mark, start reverse periodization by introducting (into one of the 55-75 minute runs) short and fast intervals, over the course of 8 weeks transition the duration and pace of these of these up through 5k pace and up to 10k-HM paces reps. Additionally at this time the long run extends to a maximum of 3 hours every other week.
For the next 8 weeks, the quality shifts to the long run and medium-long run only. The medium long run will alternate with the 12 minute tempo segments or with a long section at MP. The long run will contain MP segments, culminating at a peak workout of something like 5-6x20min at MP with 5 minutes recovery between and a 15 minute warmup and cooldown.
Two week taper.
CyclingAHEAD until 2012
Consistently Slow
My plan( in pencil): 40 miles a week--- build to 16 x 400 on track each week --- 15+ long run each week. 25 miles a week at LHR (maf 125).The last time I did speed workouts on the track or MP runs was in 1994. Plan to get a real training schedule for a fall marathon. 6 marathons - 2- 50K's.
Run until the trail runs out.
SCHEDULE 2016--
The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff
http://bkclay.blogspot.com/
What is the link to the group? I'll stick it in the main post.
After using my own plan for the last two attempts, I opted for Pfitz 18/55 this time. A year ago I was running 6-7 days a week, mostly slow, sometimes fast. Didn't listen to my body, ended up injured and did not race. Fall 2010 I used the same quasi-plan with lower miles and slower pace and it helped me to a 3:55.
So far I really like the Pfitz plan. The longer mid-week runs are difficult to schedule, but I've found the two rest days to be very helpful both physically and mentally. And for whatever reason, using an "official" plan helps me grind out the tempo runs and long runs @ MP.
That said, Big Boy's Hudson-based plan looks interesting. I'll be reading up on that.
Looking forward to 11 easy pre-dawn tomorrow with temp forecast at 3*! Call me dumb, but can't bring myself to run that far on the treadmill.
Do you know the feeling I know? When your legs have disappeared, and there is only your heart, your lungs, and your eyes skimming disembodied through the air? - Jeff
The Hudson approach is very backwards from what you typically see -- but the way he explains it makes a lot of sense. In basebuilding you run lots of volume, <i>but also short, fast repetitions with full recovery</i>, then as you get closer to the race your speedwork sessions lengthen , recoveries shorten, and the pace becomes more race specific. He defines three types of running fitness -- Aerobic Support (or aerobic base), Neuromuscular fitness (which includes raw speed AND running economy), and Specific Endurance. Specific Endurance being the blending of Aerobic Support and Neuromuscular fitness in the proportions neccessary for the goal event. The idea is that you train Aerobic Support and Neuromuscular fitness to a high level, and then from there use the fitness gained to train specific endurance.
It is a very good book, my only real complaint about it being that the way they have done the line and text formatting makes it a little awkward to read.
4 hour marathon in 2011
Don't know if that link works, but if you go under user groups, you can find it by name.
After using my own plan for the last two attempts, I opted for Pfitz 18/55 this time. A year ago I was running 6-7 days a week, mostly slow, sometimes fast. Didn't listen to my body, ended up injured and did not race. Fall 2010 I used the same quasi-plan with lower miles and slower pace and it helped me to a 3:55. So far I really like the Pfitz plan. The longer mid-week runs are difficult to schedule, but I've found the two rest days to be very helpful both physically and mentally. And for whatever reason, using an "official" plan helps me grind out the tempo runs and long runs @ MP. That said, Big Boy's Hudson-based plan looks interesting. I'll be reading up on that. Looking forward to 11 easy pre-dawn tomorrow with temp forecast at 3*! Call me dumb, but can't bring myself to run that far on the treadmill.
AXes, I took a look at your log just to see where I can improve. It looks like your training runs are a good 30 seconds faster than what I was planning. I calculated tempo pace to be 8:20 to 8:30. Do you have a specific time goal your shooting for, such as 3:40 or 3:45, or will I be training too slow?
I am doing Matt Fitzgerald's Plan from Brain Training for Runners. Level 2. It tops out about 55 or so miles a week. It worked great for the first time I broke 4 hours, last Sept.
I start that program in May. (Atlantic City/OCT goal race) Until then, really working on getting a solid 45-50 mpw base. Lots of base running, only one speed day per week. Some local short races for time trials/fitness tests.
I'm aiming for 8:30 marathon pace. Where I train is pretty flat, so I'm nervous about the hills in my planned race and will be happy with 8:45's.
Probably running my easy runs (GA in Pfitz terms) too fast. Made an effort (only partly successful) this week to slow down.
Pfitz says to run the fast miles of a tempo run at 15K pace. My HM PR is 7:57 pace. 10k PR is 7:31, so I'm aiming somewhere in between the two, looking for that "comfortably hard" feeling.
Would love to hear any comments or suggestions.
I haven't read back through all your posts, but looking at your log, the 8:53 10 mile PR pace in your log is more recent than your 15K PR. With my limited experience, all I can say is that at a minimum you have the ability to run a sub-4:00 marathon pace for an extended time. Will enjoy watching your progress!
4 hour marathon in 2011 Don't know if that link works, but if you go under user groups, you can find it by name.
Okay it's in the main post now and I joined.
Huh, I re-looked over Advanced Marathoning and I may end up doing 18/55 actually. For some reason I got the impression that wed/thur 12-14 milers were scattered throughout the plan. Turns out there are actually only two of them. I may end up doing it then. Maybe I can just take a half day or have a doctors appointment on those days.
fake it till you make it
Hope the tendon is behaving and you have a good race this weekend!
Maybe I can just take a half day or have a doctors appointment on those days.
Hmmm.... I've just been getting up earlier and earlier. A morning appt. with Dr Pfitzinger may be in my future...