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virtually no pace improvement at all in 6 months' running (Read 2207 times)

Marylander


    If you're already using your smartphone you might be able to use one of the zephyr heart rate monitors with it: zephyr. I am only aware of them from their connection to endomondo, which is software I have on my blackberry.

      Interesting ... I don't have a Garmin (yet) but do have Handy Runner on my smart phone ... is the heart rate monitor incorporated into the Garmin or a separate device? If separate, any recommendations as to make/model of heart rate monitors?

       

      It is a Garmin HR monitor that can be used with almost all newer Garmins. I have an FR60 with foot pod and HR monitor, no GPS with it. I really didn't need the GPS features.

       

      Polar also makes some less pricey HR monitor watches.

       

      The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

       

      2014 Goals:

       

      Stay healthy

      Enjoy life

       


      Climbing Mt Ruapehu

        some good advice here. i am very much a keen amateur so I have a lot of learning to do

         

        i found it very hard last year to transition from my all sparks flying bravado fast paced training to training slower and longer.  i crashed and burned went on a downward spiral and no matter what i tried it didnt work, i got slower.

         

        after 3 months off with no running i am building back into it using the train slower philosophy from the start and it appears to be working.  I still can't train every day and am managing rest and recovery still carefully over blowing out training every day.  I am still running slower than last year but I feel I am getting stronger and trending the right direction.  I am mixing up my training more with more hills, trail and further down the track I will incorporate some spped sharpening work.

         

        Basically it boils down to trying to stay at your peak forever which is unsustainable vs training below peak then peaking for a race I think

         

        This is even more the way to go for me seeing I am training for a marathon end of october instead of the shorter half marathons which are more speed dependant

        Personal Race Records:

        M 3:52:48 (Auckland 2011), HM 1:38:16 (Taupo 2010), 10km 45:05 (Sir Barry 2010), 5km 20:21 (How Pak 5km 2010)

         

        2012 Goals:
        Run the 75km Hillary Trail in a day (done 10/3/2012)


        Climbing Mt Ruapehu

          some good advice here. i am very much a keen amateur so I have a lot of learning to do. I only started running 18 months ago so I am not a tuned seasoned pro.  I was happy running 1:38 last year for the HM but with the training programme I had that was the best I could have hoped for.  I trained very fast even averaging arounf 4:40 per km pace!  I now train more around 5:15 - 5:30 pace.

           

          i found it very hard last year to transition from my all sparks flying bravado fast paced training looking at times and impriovements to training slower and longer and being happy and confident to do so.  Last year I crashed burned and went on a downward spiral and no matter what i tried it didnt work, i got slower.  It was amazing I manged to pull a 2nd HM time within 30 seconds of my first. A fluke.

           

          After my 2nd HM I took 3 months off with no running (went hiking). Now i am slowly building back into it using the train slower philosophy from the start and it appears to be working.  I still can't train every day (yet) and am managing rest and recovery still carefully over blowing out training every day.  I am still running slower than last year but I feel I am getting stronger and trending the right direction.  I am mixing up my training more with more hills, trail and further down the track I will incorporate some speed sharpening work.  Nutrition and sleep are also now cornerstones of my plan

           

          I have room to even train more slowly I think, something I am working on more as I move into running longer runs over the next couple of months

           

          Basically it boils down to trying to stay at your peak forever which is unsustainable (my last year) vs training below peak then peaking for a race I think (this year)

           

          A piece Lydiard wrote re peaking lit a light up in my head.  He talked about "if you feel you are hitting a peak early go and just jog for 2 or 3 days" - the implication being keep yourself off peak until race day.  As the experienced folk above wrote judge your progress by mapping race performance not training "performance".  Take a look at MandyS profile a girl who I respect so much. Check out her training pace vs her race pace - just amazing discipline! And her improvement in her race times over the last 9 months is astonishing going from 1:45ish HM to under 1:30

           

          This is even more the way to go for me seeing I am training for a marathon end of october instead of the shorter half marathons which are more speed dependant, gotta see training as training not as time to show off

          Personal Race Records:

          M 3:52:48 (Auckland 2011), HM 1:38:16 (Taupo 2010), 10km 45:05 (Sir Barry 2010), 5km 20:21 (How Pak 5km 2010)

           

          2012 Goals:
          Run the 75km Hillary Trail in a day (done 10/3/2012)


          DespiteMyself

            Kirkroy & Burnt Toast - thanks for the recommendations. I know that part of the conversation took a turn to Gears & Wears.

            Vinodrinker - thanks for the insight. The new girl is learning a lot really fast, and one of the lessons is patienceSmile

            If you hear a voice within you say "you cannot run," then by all means RUN, and the voice will be silenced.

             

            Jiggle Monster

              So, why do the strides a day prior to the tempo run?

               

              Here's my serious (not snarky) comment to this: why don't you try them yourself and see how they feel?

               

              Seriously; why do people do strides before the race?  To get the rhythm and "speed" in your legs.  As far as I'm concerned, that starts the day before--to get that rhythm in your legs.  If you've read my other posts somewhere in this forum, I usually prescribe 1k up-tempo run about 3 days before, sometimes the day before, the race.  This is very Japanese style of workout but, if you look very closely, very much Lydiard.  Lydiard used to do something like 3 X 200 fast 3 days before the major competition.  I've been trying to convince Greg McMillan to do this Japanese style "1km the day before" workout but he's a bit apprehensive about doing it.  Yet, for a highly conditioned athlete, doing close to race pace, perhaps just a notch faster, 1k wouldn't hurt them.  But instead, the way we say it, it'll "put you in a good stead".  Doing a few strides, if done correctly, won't hurt you any even if it's the day before the race or tempo workout.  If it does, you're probably not ready to do a tempo workout...or strides.  These are not to be done VERY fast.  Just nice and easy...relaxed but fast.  The next day, you'll be ready to do a good tempo workout.  In other words, if you don't prep yourself like this, your tempo might turn into just another LSD.  You have to differenciate each workout according to the purpose of the workout.  If you plod along Yasso 800s not that much faster than your long run pace, then the purpose of that workout is not fulfilled.  The strides are just a prep work for that.

               

              If you take a look at our on-line training program, we have what we call "Up-tempo" run 3 or 4 days before the race.  The pace is specifically prescribed--we don't want people to run it too fast, which most people do; to see how fast they can run.  This is only slightly faster than the actual race pace.  I've been telling Greg M for years about this and, 2 years ago, he saw it himself Yoko Shibui, 8th fastest woman in history with 2:19, doing 2 X 1km in about 3:10 three days before she won San Francisco Marathon handily in 2:42 (I think the second place finisher was somewhere around 3 hours).  For all-out 1k, she could probably run it in 2:45~50 or something.  For those who have "heavy legs" in the race or there's not much diffrerence between the race pace and workout pace, try this (not 2 X 1km).  Those who always start out the marathon too fast and die in the second half, don't.

              MrH


                So, why do the strides a day prior to the tempo run?

                 

                It's about getting used to the faster turnover.

                The process is the goal.

                Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

                  Is there a difference between doing strides on a flat or inclined surface?

                  And we run because we like it
                  Through the broad bright land

                  xor


                    Yes.

                     

                    Is that a trick question?

                     

                    If not... why do you ask?

                     

                    Purdey


                    Self anointed title

                      It's about getting used to the faster turnover.

                       

                      As Nobby would say (forgive me Nobby) - to reduce the viscosity. Believe it or not, this works.

                       

                       

                      MrH


                        Is there a difference between doing strides on a flat or inclined surface?

                         

                        How big an incline?

                        The process is the goal.

                        Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

                          Im guessing an increase of 20 feet over 0.15 miles, from the bottom of the underpass to the top of the levee. There are no real hills in my neighborhood.

                           

                          What do you mean by viscosity? If strides are done every week, how often would you do hills?

                          And we run because we like it
                          Through the broad bright land

                            Is there a difference between doing strides on a flat or inclined surface?

                             

                            ?????

                             

                            Well, they are different because, on flat, you're running on flat and on hill (inclined surface), you're going uphill. 

                             

                            It seems like you are not quite getting what I'm talking about.  The workout should have a specific purpose according to your specific needs, which should be tailored specifically to get you prepared for the specific task of the speciric event you are training for.  For example, what's the point of doing swimming day after day after day when you're training for a marathon?  I know some may argue that it's a cross training and so-and-so had a good result swimming.  Whatever.  If you want to count an exception, fine.  But if you're training for a marathon, you train to be a marathon runner; you don't, or shouldn't, train to be a body builder--but some people still do.  If you want to run fast, you train fast--not all the time, but you need to work on your muscles, range of motion, metabolism (aerobic and anaerobic and all that) to prepare yourself to run fast.

                             

                            This SPECIFIC workout I'm talking about is to prepare yourself SPECIFICALLY to race in the following days.  If your race is on uphill, particularly uphill all the time like one of those mountain races, yeah, doing the strides on inclined surface might help--I still wouldn't because then you're introducing the element of "resistance" and I wouldn't personally do that when preparing in the final stage; just as I wouldn't do these workouts against the wind.  You want to feel good, feel fast...  If anything, I'd do them on downhill section. 

                             

                            I think, and I'm guessing here, you are thinking, if you make the workout tougher, by introducing uphill just like Coach Canova advocates, it would be better and I'll be running like those Kenyans...  Maybe; if you've run hundreds and thousands of miles, going up and down the vallies like they had.  But chances are, you hadn't.  So think logically and don't crap-shoot the workout.  That's my suggestion.

                              Thank you. I think I have a better understanding now. It helps to re-read some of the other posts and articles I see online.

                              And we run because we like it
                              Through the broad bright land

                                Thank you. I think I have a better understanding now. It helps to re-read some of the other posts and articles I see online.

                                 

                                Parklife:

                                 

                                I wasn't trying to be a smar-mouth (but maybe I am anyways??? ;o)) but, seriously, you have to understand what you're trying to get out of any given workout and what your actual needs are.

                                 

                                Before Montreal Olympics, Rod Dixon, one of the favorites for 5000m, said that he did tons of hill training and he's so fit and strong and ready to win.  Dick Quax, his countryman but also the strongest rival, also one of the favorites, said that he felt he (Rod) did too much hill training.  "There's no hill on track," he said. 

                                 

                                So many times many people say, well, Lydiard said to run 100 miles a week but I didn't get faster by doing 100 miles a week.  100 miles a week is to make you strong and fit enough to do whatever the necessary workouts that follow.  Running 22-miles every Sunday most likely won't make you run fast (to the point, yes).  "Speed" training is to run FAST.  That's why downhill running is very important.  It teaches you to run fast.  Uphill running, while it will help you get stronger (so you can do lots of fast running) and, ultimately, faster; that "faster" will come something like 3 weeks down the road.  If you want to be fast tomorrow, you want to run fast, relaxed.

                                 

                                Here's another example; Yoko Shibui's coach sent me an e-mail the day after she won the national 10000m championships and made the Olympic team to Beijing.  "Lydiard downhill striding made it possible," he said.  He said she did 1km the day before the final but lacked sharpness.  So he took her to a gradual downhill section (road) and did several 50m downhill FAST.  Yoko won it in the final 100m sprint.  You can watch it on YouTube somewhere (just look for 2008 Japanese Olympic Trial women's 10000m).  It was a "dead'heat" sprint but she knew she's gonna overtake Akaba.  She was literally smiling.  Someone else said "turnover".  It's a nerve thing.  You just reconnected your nerve to fire up.  Uphill running won't do that.  Uphill running will wake up your white muscle fibers and start to be powerful.  You need that too.  But not the day before (besides, it takes 48 hours for explosive muscles to recover).

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