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| Long run nutrition/energy food? (Read 1218 times) |
| view log Non ducor, duco. |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 3:23 PM
modified: 4/7/2008 at 3:23 PM |
Quote from Trent on 4/7/2008 at 2:06 PM:Um. Nevermind.  MTA: I ran my loing run yesterday with just a cnadybar at mile 21 and a couple bites of another at mile 37, with Gatorade along the way. I had some protein in the form of an omlet about an hour after I had finished. Today I feel just fine.
That isn't much.
I want to ask this question without getting slammed. It is an honest question. A friend (62) used to be a big marathoner. He's not running now..long story. But anyway, back in the day he didnt eat during marathons. He is dumbfounded by everyone eating and all the gels and stuff. He thinks its crazy. I dont think if he is thinking about people running 4 hour marathons. Is he just old school or is there something to the idea that all the fuels/gels are part hype?
Again, I have no opinion. I haven't run a marathon. Im just wonderin. |
I'll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure.
Mae West |
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| view log Funky Monkey |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 3:35 PM |
In the old days, before the big sports nutrition industry, folks ran marathons with water only. Water. On average, marathoners back then were faster than most marathoners today.
At no point during my 42 miler yesterday did I feel like I was going to bonk. I took in probably no more than 300-400 calories. I ate more because 8 hours is a long time to go without food more than because I felt I needed to fuel my miles. |
| It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys attack. |
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| view log Non ducor, duco. |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 3:44 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 4/7/2008 at 3:35 PM: At no point during my 42 miler yesterday did I feel like I was going to bonk.
Do you think if your daily nutrition is good that you are less likely to need the stuff in-race or is it not that closely correlated? |
I'll try anything once, twice if I like it, three times to make sure.
Mae West |
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| view log dork.major dork. |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 4:04 PM |
Trent: Did you eat differently leading up to those eight hours? What makes a mile stupid? Now your "long" runs in your log look kinda short. Good work on that.
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| Reaching 1,243 in 2008 -- one day, one week, one mile at a time. |
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| view log Monkey Scratch |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 4:33 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 4/7/2008 at 3:35 PM:
At no point during my 42 miler yesterday did I feel like I was going to bonk.
Perhaps because of pace? I am sure you burned a nice hunk of fat during that puppy. |
all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be
Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads. |
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| view log Funky Monkey |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 4:36 PM
modified: 4/7/2008 at 4:36 PM |
Sorry, my answer above was a touch on the short side. Some points.
1. If you are running at a near maximal effort, you will need to consume calories on the course when racing over about 18 miles. This is because at high effort, your primary energy source is glycogen and you can store only enough glycogen to power that distance. Anything further requires exogenous carbohydrates such as energy gels and sports drink.
2. If you are running at a low intensity, as JK and I were yesterday (note how our pace compares with most of our running) then your body will use fat as its primary energy source. Every pound of fat can fuel about 30-45 miles. I have on me at least one pound of fat . Of course, all running still burns some carbs, but they are less important at lower efforts.
3. I ate loads in the days leading up to this long run. I concentrated on proteins and carbs.
4. These miles were stupid cuz 42 miles is just too dang far, especially in a week that already include 4 laps around a very very hilly course.
Quote from Marcus L S on 4/7/2008 at 4:33 PM:Perhaps because of pace? I am sure you burned a nice hunk of fat during that puppy.
Exactly! |
| It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys attack. |
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posted: 4/7/2008 at 7:35 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 4/7/2008 at 3:35 PM: In the old days, before the big sports nutrition industry, folks ran marathons with water only. Water. On average, marathoners back then were faster than most marathoners today.
Also, back in the old days, marathoners would practice different methods of glycogen depletion as part of their training. Another thing they would do: practically go on the Aitkins diet during their taper to get super glycogen depleted, and then 3-4 days before the race they would gorge themselves with carbs. The theory was their muscles were so starved for glycogen that they would store extra. Alberto Salazar preaches it in one of his books. |
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| view log Monkey Scratch |
posted: 4/7/2008 at 7:54 PM |
| Quote from Gopher Ryan on 4/7/2008 at 7:35 PM: Also, back in the old days, marathoners would practice different methods of glycogen depletion as part of their training. Another thing they would do: practically go on the Aitkins diet during their taper to get super glycogen depleted, and then 3-4 days before the race they would gorge themselves with carbs. The theory was their muscles were so starved for glycogen that they would store extra. Alberto Salazar preaches it in one of his books.
I have read of this method but I have never read any literature to support it. You can only store so much glycogen. Period. Going full empty before filling up doesn't increase the amount one can store.
But I could be wrong. |
all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be
Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads. |
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posted: 4/8/2008 at 1:55 AM |
| Quote from Trent on 4/7/2008 at 4:36 PM:
4. These miles were stupid cuz 42 miles is just too dang far........
Uhh, yeh!! That is 2 weeks for me!
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| Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!! |
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posted: 4/8/2008 at 2:23 AM |
| Quote from Marcus L S on 4/7/2008 at 7:54 PM:
But I could be wrong.
I don't think you are.
From what I've read, the "I'll intentionally bonk" approach in training doesn't help physiologically, at least not much. It also sucks. I've tried it, sometimes on purpose, sometimes not. Even if it does help somewhat, I think its outweighed by the fact that it takes longer to recovery from those training runs ... and did I mention they suck?
Nowadays I hydrate and fuel well on long runs. I think the benefits of running well and feeling good and happy in training pretty much trump anything else. I guess painful bonk runs are good for getting used to the feeling, but I wouldn't do it very often. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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posted: 4/8/2008 at 3:47 AM |
| Quote from zoom-zoom on 4/12/2007 at 2:27 PM: My biggest thing on my longer runs is in the last hour or so feeling hungry...stomach growling, the whole bit--I start dreaming of buffets, LOL. Even if I eat a decent sized snack beforehand. GU gives me temporary energy, but doesn't make the gnawing stop. Is there anything I can do to make me feel less famished on my runs?
The key to this type of problem is going to be having slow digestng and low-gi sources of energy pre-run. (low-gi doesn't always mean slow digesting btw)
You mentioned not being able to tolerate certain foods... so, liquids might be best. Here is a link to carbohydrate powders by the name of palatinose that are slow digesting and very low-gi(lower than oats and sweet potatos):
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/zima/carb.html
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=6357
Looks kind of expensive but, it's really not bad compared to gatorade per serving when you break it down. Anyway, some of this pre-run + some during mixed with gatorade during would very likely keep the stomach growling down.
I haven't tried it running as I'm new to running, but, it's very good stuff. I've used it for lifting purposes. |
| I think a little research would show that most of your great implements of death are the result of zombie-eyed daydreams of shoe salesmen. -Al Bundy |
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| view log Bif! Bam! Pow! |
posted: 4/9/2008 at 3:57 AM |
| Quote from Trent on 4/7/2008 at 3:35 PM: In the old days, before the big sports nutrition industry, folks ran marathons with water only. Water. On average, marathoners back then were faster than most marathoners today..
Not entirely a valid comparison. The average marathoner is slower today because more people run marathons including many people who simply arent ...well...trained or naturally talented. People like me didnt run marathons then. The fastest runners today are faster than before. Now, I'm not saying a gel pack would have made the difference  |
Beware the Pink Boxing Gloves of DOOM!
"It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds" - Captain Hammer
2008 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM, M What now?
I failed the 12 minute run in 11th grade... |
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posted: 4/9/2008 at 5:08 AM |
Quote from Ennay on 4/9/2008 at 3:57 AM: I'm not saying a gel pack would have made the difference
Then what the hell are you saying? 
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| I think a little research would show that most of your great implements of death are the result of zombie-eyed daydreams of shoe salesmen. -Al Bundy |
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| view log Funky Monkey |
posted: 4/9/2008 at 12:14 PM |
Quote from Ennay on 4/9/2008 at 3:57 AM:Not entirely a valid comparison. The average marathoner is slower today because more people run marathons including many people who simply arent ...well...trained or naturally talented. People like me didnt run marathons then. The fastest runners today are faster than before. Now, I'm not saying a gel pack would have made the difference
I agree, and I was aware of this risk before I posted. But today's top runners in most small marathons use both energy products AND come in slower than the ole time runners who used water if anything at all. |
| It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys attack. |
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| view log |
posted: 4/9/2008 at 7:25 PM |
| I like to take the small honey packets that they give at fast food chicken restaurants along on my long runs. They work well for boosting the blood sugar, and are much cheaper than GU. I just go in and ask for honey at the counter; usually they can't tell that I'm not really a customer... |
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