Goal 6 minute mile (Read 6289 times)

    set a modest goal and see how little training he can do and still accomplish it.  It's sort of interesting in a way.

     

    sounds like my terrible 1-year high school cross country "career".  I ran about a 21 minute 5k on day 1 with no training, got to 17:4X for the district thing and the coach decided to let me be the 7th man at state and I bombed running 18-something.  What comes easy is fleeting. 

     

    the greater the struggle the more glorious the triumph.

    In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

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    I've got a fever...

      As for the whole process thing, this is sort of Mich's MO--set a modest goal and see how little training he can do and still accomplish it.  It's sort of interesting in a way.

      Agree that it's "interesting", but I'd rather see the guy train for real and crush his goals once and for all.  No one crushes anything but mediocrity on 10~20 miles per week.

      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


      Lazy idiot

        I'm not an elite runner, was never a miler, and should maybe be summarily dismissed from this conversation.  But a sub-6 mile was a goal of mine for a while, too.

         

        I never trained specifically for a sub-6 mile.  If and when I ever acheived it, it was going to come out of training designed more for longer distance races.  But I think the basic principles apply, and I apologize for repeating the overused (and oversimplified) Trent-ism: Run a lot, mostly easy, sometimes fast.

         

        If your goal follows the lines that mikeymike stated, it's certainly possible but I think you're making things harder than you need to.  A sub-6 mile is much nearer than you think if you were to change up your training philosophy.

         

        Running more and (generally) easier will give you more of a platform to support the little "speedwork" it would likely require to acheive this goal.  More miles, larger margin of error on time trial day (more things can not go your way and you can still reach your goal).  Less miles, and your margin of error is so small you need to run a perfect race (along with other conditions you cannot control like weather, etc) on time trial day to get there.

         

        Completely unscientific personal anecdote:

         

        The first time I gave this a serious go, I'd run 449 miles in the 6 months leading up to the attempt, with 309 (69%) of those miles classified as easy.  My training was spotty, inconsistent, and it took a 50 degree day to get me a 6:05.

         

        The second time I gave this a go (five months after the first), I'd run 546 miles in the 6 months leading up to the attempt, with 402 (74%) of those miles classified as easy.  My training was slightly less spotty and inconsistent, and I ran a 5:58 on a 70 degree humid sunny day.

         

        Most recently, I ran a mile race on July 9.  In the previous 6 months, I'd run 700 miles, with 431 (62%) classified as easy (I'd argue that the actual percentage is probably much closer to 70% because when I log a 7 mile tempo run, probably only 2-2.5 of those miles are actually at tempo speed, but whatever...).  My training was generally more consistent (despite a pretty lackluster late spring), and I ran a 5:46 on a sunny 86 degree afternoon. 

         

        This completely unscientific anecdote is mostly to describe my point that more training will widen your margin of error (weather, good/bad personal day, terrain, course, etc).  You can certainly do what you're attempting to do, but I know if I tried it and succeeded it would physically hurt like hell.

         

        Best of luck, I'm going to be following this thread to keep up with you.

        Tick tock

          I'm with everyone else...substitute some time trials with interval workouts.  I run interval work every Tuesdays...different lenghts each week and more geared to 5K training.  But consistently doing some kind of repetition of a distance between 200 and 800 will help you learn what the pace feels like to run your goal.  When I was first trying to break 5 minutes, I didn't do it by trying to run a mile over and over.  I learned to groove a 75 second 400, then a 2:30 1/2, and so on.  You need to know what a 90 second quarter feels like, a 3:00 half, and a 4:30 3/4.  I ran a mile road race on Memorial day in 4:56 and that method of training worked well for me.  Good luck in your quest!

            I disagree.  At Mich's current level of training (i.e, zero) just running a mile all out once a week will yield some performance benefit.  Of course this will plateau quickly and after a few weeks he will stop seeing progress and either level out or start to regress unless he actually trains.

             

            As for the whole process thing, this is sort of Mich's MO--set a modest goal and see how little training he can do and still accomplish it.  It's sort of interesting in a way.

             

             

            That's similar to what I think as well.  I think Michigan could have run a lot faster.  But for some reasons, the training has never been very optimal.

             

            Several years ago, on the sub 20 board, Michigan made a breakthrough and got sub-20.  At that time, I was running 21+ min 5k for a few years with no improvements.

             

            I made adjustments on my training.  I first broke 6 min mile at the age of 38.  I followed with several low 5:40 mile races.  Now, I can run sub 20 5k pretty easily as well.  And for my last Marathon, every 5k splits was just 21+ min and I ran 7+ of them in a row.  With good training, one can achieve quite a bit more.  I am also older, shorter with shorter legs and definitely never good for distance running when I was young (couldn't finish a 1/2 mile race in HS).

            Zortrium


              I made adjustments on my training.  I first broke 6 min mile at the age of 38.  I followed with several low 5:40 mile races.  Now, I can run sub 20 5k pretty easily as well.  And for my last Marathon, every 5k splits was just 21+ min and I ran 7+ of them in a row.  With good training, one can achieve quite a bit more.  I am also older, shorter with shorter legs and definitely never good for distance running when I was young (couldn't finish a 1/2 mile race in HS).

               Based on glancing at your log, I'm guessing that the 'adjustments' you refer to largely consisted of lots of easy miles.  Was there anything else that you think made a particular difference?

                 Based on glancing at your log, I'm guessing that the 'adjustments' you refer to largely consisted of lots of easy miles.  Was there anything else that you think made a particular difference?

                 

                I probably should enter my more recent runs in my logs too Smile

                 

                Yes, I up my mileage carefully.  My runs consist of mostly runs at easy paces.  There were also some targeted speedwork/tempo runs at the right paces.  Before I made the improvements, I tend to run them too fast.  The interval paces I ran when I was a 21+ min 5k runner were about the same as my current ones, though I am much better now than 3 years ago.

                 

                I used Pfitz for my first 3 marathons and then switched to Hudson.  Pfitz really built a solid foundation for me in general, though there were some issues, like not peaking at the right time.   When I used Pfitz, I did very well in all the tune up races, though the Marathon results were not always as great.  With Hudson, I did very well in my goal Marathon races but the tune up race results have not been very good.

                  Why are you doing this on a treadmill?  Do you even know the treadmill is calibrated correctly?

                   

                  Personally I find it very hard to run fast on a treadmill.  I would not be surprised if you were at least 15 seconds faster right now if you ran it outside on a track.

                   

                  I am a treadmill guy. I have probably ran a couple thousand miles on the treadmill the last few years.

                  Is it calibrated correctly? Probably pretty close. It is 1.5% grade and has the feel of running a 6:28 mile yesterday.

                   

                  But then again I don't know. I could go outside and struggle to run a 7 minute mile. It will be interesting to see where I am at.

                   

                  The 6:37 effort was fairly easy though and that's why my training was still low. I figure I was not training hard.

                  The 6:37 however was really more like 6:40 since I am about 3 seconds off per mile on the treadmill clock.

                   

                  The 6:28 effort kicked my butt though. I know I will not go much farther without doing some real training.

                   

                  Big surprise to me is the 6:28 equates to 21:31 for a 5k distance. I did not know I was in that good a shape (and probably am not yet since I don't have the stamina). There is no doubt these bunches of fast miles are making me fast much faster than a regular training program. But at what cost? I guess it is an experiment. October 31 gives me plenty of time to break 20. I would say the run yesterday was the first really hard effort. I will tone off on those as they are not fun. I do need to get outside though and test my mile track speed.

                   

                  Let's say by August 31st I need to get off a track run. I will train for the next 2 weeks for that outdoor run. If I break 6:30 outside I will consider that a success but I think I have a shot at 6:20 if I put in 20 miles per week.


                  MoBramExam

                    October 31 gives me plenty of time to break 20.

                     

                    In all honesty, I think that's too soon.  Targeting sub-6 will only delay getting back to sub-20, but I also think you already know that.

                     



                      In all honesty, I think that's too soon.  Targeting sub-6 will only delay getting back to sub-20, but I also think you already know that.

                       

                      Yeah I think that was a Freudian slip on my part. I meant plenty of time to go sub 6 by Halloween.

                        I am a treadmill guy. I have probably ran a couple thousand miles on the treadmill the last few years.

                        Is it calibrated correctly? Probably pretty close. It is 1.5% grade and has the feel of running a 6:28 mile yesterday.

                         

                        ...

                         

                        I agree.  There is really nothing wrong with training on the TM.

                          My memory's a bit hazy on this. But, I think the point was that the treadmill will not measure whether you have actually run a mile under 6 minutes.  

                          "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                            Well if it had the feel of running 6:28 to a guy who hasn't run 6:28 in a long time, then I'm sure it's "pretty close."

                            Runners run.

                              My memory's a bit hazy on this. But, I think the point was that the treadmill will not measure whether you have actually run a mile under 6 minutes.  

                               

                               

                              Using treadmill for time trial may be another story.  Most treadmills probably are not calibrated to such a degree that can be used for accurate time trail.

                               

                              However, it is a good tool for general running and even doing some speedwork.  Accuracy is not as important for those runs.

                                I meant to run 20 miles last week and I had 8 in the 1st three days.

                                But then my car was hit while parked on the street and I had to take care of the insurance among other things.

                                So I only I have run less than a mile since Wednesday.

                                 

                                Well it is Sunday today and I was watching the World championships of track today so I thought I need to test my speed again.

                                 

                                I ran 0.6 mile warmup slow. Then I hit the treadmill and cranked the speed up to 9 mph which didn't last more than 30 seconds and I felt very winded so I felt a fast time trial was probably not in the cards tonight.

                                 

                                Well I tried it anyhow.

                                And I finished my mile in 6 minutes and 19 seconds!?

                                A full 9 seconds faster than my last attempt which was probably almost 2 weeks ago.

                                 

                                My splits were 1:37, 1:35, 1:35, 1:31

                                So the 1st half mile was 3:12 and the last half 3:07.

                                Again this is on a treadmill so I do not know if I can replicate this outdoors.

                                But at least I know I am getting faster.

                                 

                                I am a grand total of 39.4 miles this month.

                                For the year I am at 411.1 miles so I think some of  the mileage in January through May has stayed with me.

                                 

                                I have to try a mile outdoors. I believe it will kick my butt, but I know I need to learn the secrets to running the oval.

                                The 1st month August was quite kind to me. I did not think I could knock my time down so fast on so few miles.

                                I know I am cheating by not running much but it feels good to know I still have something in the tank.