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Beer mile Co2 science (Read 108 times)

    "On your mark, get set..." On "Go!" she starts the timer, and Nielsen springs into action. He cracks open a room-temperature Budweiser–because warm beer retains less carbonation than cold–tilts his head back 45 degrees–an angle he knows through studying fluid dynamics will best usher the brew down his gullet–and seals his lips onto the can. “

     

    Ok – beer mile enthusiasts… I’ve read the above, and heard from some experienced BM’ers (spaniel), that warm beer has the advantage of being less carbonated. I understand the thermo / physics here in principle, that the colder the beer the more CO2 it absorbs (and the less CO2 will be in the headspace of the can or bottle), and that as the beer warms, the CO2 is released. But, in practice – how much headspace is there in a can of beer? I really don’t know. It feels like bottles have more (probably because you can see it)…

     

    Anyway, the same amount of carbonation is in the can before it is opened, whether it’s warm or cold – it’s either in the solution or in the headspace, but all contained within the can. The assumption would be with a warm beer, more CO2 would be in the headspace than a colder beer.

     

    I guess after all the rambling…in the second or so between opening the can and putting it to your mouth, how much of the headspace CO2 escapes? – is that enough to make a real difference? Should you wait an extra half second before drinking to make sure you’ve cleared the maximum headspace Co2 so you’re not ingesting it? Is warm beer so unpalatable that you’d rather suffer the additional absorbed CO2 of a colder beer? Is there some optimal temperature / time delay / palatability formula we can implement?

    Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
    We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


    Prince of Fatness

      When I ran a beer mile that was my theory.  But, my beer was too warm and it did not go well.  I over thought things.

       

      Yes, beer holds more carbonation when it is colder.  But, you warm it, and where does the carbonation go?  That's right, it is still in the can or bottle until you open it.  So now you open it and chug it and all of that CO2 is released right away.  In your stomach.

       

      So next time I run a beer mile the beer will be colder than last.  Not ice cold, mind you.  But colder.

       

      MTA: I reread your post.  I am not a science geek but I think that the CO2 is still in the unopened beer (not headspace) even when warm.  This is because the contents are under pressure,  As soon as you open the can the pressure is relieved and the CO2 escapes.  So yeah, waiting would help but the whole idea is to get the beer down quickly.  That is why I would opt for the colder beer,

      Not at it at all. 


      Feeling the growl again

        In theory, as beer is warmed, the CO2 will start to go out of solution.  But the can is a closed system, so as it does the pressure in the headspace increases.  Beer under increased pressure at a given temp can hold more CO2, so not as much will come out of solution as would if the beer were not in a sealed container.

         

        When you open the beer, any CO2 in the headspace is vented almost instantly as the opening is plenty large compared to the headspace it must vent.  So theoretically, warm beer is an advantage because you vent off the CO2 in the headspace, which is more of what the beer started with if it is warm.

         

        The issue is I am not aware of anyone who has actually quantified any of this to determine if it is significant.

         

        Once the cold beer hits your gullet and warms, the CO2 begins releasing so you end up with a belly full of it.  Belch away.  IMHO anything done to reduce the CO2, from warm beer to starting with a beer type with less inherent carbonation, is a good thing.

         

        The temp of the beer is a personal thing.  I've tried various temps and with thin-tasting beer like Bud I can drink it at room temp with no issues.

         

        FWIW, I still think the men's beer mile WR is BS.  Compare it to the recently-set women's record.  The woman who set the record is clearly experiencing what the beer mile is like.  The guy just doesn't look believable.  And I still have been unable to get a standard can to empty nearly as quickly as they are in that video, drinking it aside.  The whole 45 degree thing in the quote is also not accurate; for maximum flow you need to maintain airflow into the can as the beer exits.  If the air must bubble in it slows the exit rate of the beer.  So you need to change the angle and increase it as the can empties.  Yes, I've tested this.  Smile

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         

        I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

         

        LedLincoln


        not bad for mile 25

          My unverified, off-the-cuff opinion is in line with MrFinn.  I think the headspace is irrelevant; practically all the CO2 is in solution, even in the warm beer.  The gas will be released somewhat more slowly in your stomach if the beer is cold. That could be a good thing.

           

          There could be considerable variance in the amount of dissolved CO2 contained in different brands or types of beer.  Has anyone measured it?  That could be a productive line of study.

           

          The amount of foam that you're dealing with while trying to drink the beer might also be something you have some control over.

           

          The science of the beer mile is very young.

          Joann Y


            This is all very interesting and useful information. In my limited experience with the BM (beer mile), beer that has been out of the fridge for 3-4 hours was pretty ideal. Chugging was not a problem. Burping was. I'm sure that this has become quite evident by now but I have quite refined feminine sensibilities and this kept me from being able to actually burp when I needed to burp. I just don't have that kind of sphincter (esophageal) control. IMHO, sphincter control is the key to a really good BM.


            Prince of Fatness

              My unverified, off-the-cuff opinion is in line with MrFinn.  I think the headspace is irrelevant; practically all the CO2 is in solution, even in the warm beer.  The gas will be released somewhat more slowly in your stomach if the beer is cold. That could be a good thing.

               

              You managed to say this better than I did.  Yeah, the problem I had with the warmer beer is that it was releasing the CO2 on its way down to my stomach.  It was like drinking pop rocks.  It was getting it down that was the problem.

               

              And yeah there are styles that traditionally less carbed.  Lots of the British styles are like that.  A couple of problems with the British styles:

               

              1. I think they carb the beer that goes to the US more.  That's because a lot of stupid Americans think that something is effed up with the beer if it ain't fizzing.
              2. A lot of the good British styles come in under the 5% minimum ABV.

              Not at it at all. 

              jpdeaux


                It took a bit, but you got there, didn't you? Good work. 

                 

                This is all very interesting and useful information. In my limited experience with the BM (beer mile), beer that has been out of the fridge for 3-4 hours was pretty ideal. Chugging was not a problem. Burping was. I'm sure that this has become quite evident by now but I have quite refined feminine sensibilities and this kept me from being able to actually burp when I needed to burp. I just don't have that kind of sphincter (esophageal) control. IMHO, sphincter control is the key to a really good BM.

                Joann Y


                  It took a bit, but you got there, didn't you? Good work. 

                   

                   

                  I couldn't help myself. But in all seriousness, I actually do believe what I said, no matter which way you interpret it.

                  xhristopher


                    I'd like to see the Mythbusters do a segment on the beer mile. They can address warm beer, cold beer, different styles of beer, and the plausibility of the current men's WR.

                    Joann Y


                      I'd like to see the Mythbusters do a segment on the beer mile. They can address warm beer, cold beer, different styles of beer, and the plausibility of the current men's WR.

                       

                      That would be great because I honestly thought that my stomach might explode and from what I remember they did prove that it could, didn't they? I didn't get a good burp going until after the second beer. That can't be safe.


                      Feeling the growl again

                         I have quite refined feminine sensibilities and this kept me from being able to actually burp when I needed to burp.

                         

                        Good thing it did not affect your ability to effectively heckle your competition.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         

                        I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                         

                        Joann Y


                           

                          Good thing it did not affect your ability to effectively heckle your competition.

                           

                          I do have three brothers and, as a kid, spent a lot of time at my dad's junkyard, so my idea of refined may be slightly different than others.


                          ultramarathon/triathlete

                            I'm my non-important beer mile opinion, people who approach the beer mile with the goal to make it "easier" are kind of missing the point of the beer mile.

                             

                            Even if I did know 45 degrees was optimal, in the heat of the moment when I come back around the track bend down to get my next beer, the last thing I am thinking is how to maximize my chug.  I just throw it back quickly, try to drink and not puke, then go.

                             

                            You can't take these things too seriously.  The fun is the non-serious nature, man!   Drinking a warm beer to be a few seconds faster, meh. Unless it's a beer meant to be consumed at room temp, you're just making the experience less pleasant (gross warm beer) in a misguided attempt to make something more pleasant (over sooner, I guess).  Doesn't make sense.   Next we're gonna have the charity beer mile.  Donate some money and all you have to do is walk the track.  No beer needed, no running needed.  lol  ;-)

                             

                            My wife ran her first Beer Mile last night.  14:30.  I was mighty proud, she didn't puke and had a great time.  I ran one with my BK team last Sunday: 7:30.  Not a PR but good enough for 2nd place and a fun time.  Next up is the day after turkey day beer mile in CT!

                            HTFU?  Why not!

                            USATF Coach

                            Empire Tri Club Coach
                            Gatorade Endurance Team

                              So, you keep track of your PR, your time down to the second, and what place you finished, but you're not interested in how to be faster? Got it.

                              Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                              We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


                              ultramarathon/triathlete

                                Not at the expense of making it less enjoyable of an experience or all of a sudden "serious".  THAT was my point Kevin.  But I'm sure you understood that.

                                 

                                So, you keep track of your PR, your time down to the second, and what place you finished, but you're not interested in how to be faster? Got it.

                                HTFU?  Why not!

                                USATF Coach

                                Empire Tri Club Coach
                                Gatorade Endurance Team

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