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PAIN-PAIN & MORE PAIN (Read 960 times)

TeeK


    Can someone help me out? I am in the fifth week of an eighteen week training program preparing for the Napa Valley Marathon. I just started to suffer sever pain under my left knee and the outside of my right ankle when I run. Last week I had a 15.8 mile week with no pain and the week before was a 16.5 mile week with no pain and then bang - PAIN. Yesterday, my first training day of the week, I attempted to do a 3.25 mile easy run but had to stop at 1.25. Later in the day I did complete a 3.25 mile run but it was painful for most of the run. Although, the pain did subsided in my knee about 2 or 2 ½ miles in the run, my ankle hurt throughout the run. I rested most of yesterday and iced both areas in the afternoon. I did not have any swelling before or after my runs and am mostly pain free when I am not running. I had no pain this morning and went out for a 5 mile run but only made it about ¼ mile before walking back home at 5:30 AM, hobbling on both legs. I assume both issues are caused by over usage. My training plan calls for a 3.25 mile run tomorrow and a 10 mile run on Saturday. How should I handle my training and get back to pain free runs?
      I'm gonna let others answer this, but you might want to make your log public for purposes of this discussion. Hope you feel better soon!

      Roads were made for journeys...


      Prophet!

        hey... i'm in my last two weeks of an 18 week marathon training program (the Hal Higdon Novice) and i've had those types of pain around the same time as you did in my program..i had that pain under the knee problem and the ankles as well. The increasing workload is more likely the culprit along with maybe not having a good enough base to start the program, but i also had ran too fast on one of the short runs. I skipped on one of the short runs and then bought a decent knee brace from the running store (lightweight, open patela, very comfy) and tried it out on the long run going really slow, and that worked. Ice everything that hurts after every run and take ibuprofen. I'd say take the next two days off and then maybe do your long run on a Sunday, going slower than your regular long run pace till you feel comfortable. I ended having to play around with the schedule to get an extra days of rest here and there. Its better to heal up early on in the program. good luck. BTW - There will be more pain later but by that time you'll be as stubborn as some people here to rest up Shy
          I see a a couple big red flags in your post: first, you seem to be following your program to the letter - even when your body is suggesting a little flexibility might be smarter; second, the fact that you describe your pain as "severe," yet you went out and finished your run on the same day, despite your body making you stop earlier; and third, the fact that "no pain" became insurmountable pain in 1/4 mile this morning. Only two options here: 1) You're a complete wimp who can't take a little discomfort, or 2) you've injured yourself and you're making it worse. I think we can safely discard option one; that "severe" description of the pain doesn't sound like a little muscle burn. Smile Plus, you keep running anyway. Dumb, but not wimpy. Welcome to the club. So you're hurt. Which is okay. Depending on the cause, if you let it heal fully (well, mostly at least), you ought to be able to reach your goal. There's only one thing that will ensure your failure: if you keep aggravating the injury. You got some great advice from Phat_Runner:
          The increasing workload is more likely the culprit along with maybe not having a good enough base to start the program ...
          Yup. I really wonder if you've got enough of a base at this point. As far as I know, none of those programs are designed for someone with no base at all. They all suggest some base. If you don't have it, if you're going from nothing to weekly long runs, injury is natural.
          I ended having to play around with the schedule to get an extra days of rest here and there.
          More great advice. Most of us (including me) tend to follow those programs a little too exactly sometimes. They aren't one-size-fits-all. They're designed to show you the fundamentals. PhatRunner's suggestion that you play around with it a bit is a very good one. You may have to incorporate an extra rest day. You may have to take a full week off for now. Maybe your weekly runs should be every other week instead of every week. Maybe you have to lay off speedwork or tempo runs. (A lot of maybe's there - since we can't see your log!) The only thing that will end your marathon hopes is if you run on a real injury, even when you know you shouldn't, because Higdon or Pfitzinger or whoever is telling you its time for 6.75 miler at MP +30 ... or something. Use the plan as a guide, not a red-letter Bible. Take some time off for now. Non-impact cross training (swimming, elliptical, bike, whatever) can maintain (or improve) your fitness. If your pain is really that acute or severe, if you think it might be a joint or tendon or a ligament (or you don't know), go see a sports doc. I won't say running should never hurt - but it should never hurt like this. Unless you're in a race and willing to sacrifice your body to finish. Or unless the monkeys are getting really, really close. Listen to your body. If you do, worst case scenario is that you have to postpone your run. Ignore your body, and you could push that marathon back years instead of weeks. Maybe forever. And that would, well, suck.
          E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
          -----------------------------

          Mile Collector


          Abs of Flabs

            TeeK, I don't have enough information about you to say what the problem is. Is this your first marathon? How long have you been running before taking on the training plan? I also don't know the details of your training plan, but it seems like it is a little aggressive in terms of the distance you're running. For example, you're up to 16.5 miles 4 weeks into the 18 week program, as well as doing back to back 15+ mile runs certainly contributed to the pain. Also, how many miles per week are you up to, and what was your base? Any additional information would help provide a more specific answer. Without it, I would suggest examining your shoes. How many miles do you have on them? Are they properly fitted to your needs? The pains you described are all joint related, which lead me to think that your shoes are not supporting you properly. Until you get things sorted out, you should cut way back on your running. You will have to deviate from your training plan, but it's for the best in the long run. Good luck and keep us posted!
              Really just want to say that I agree with what everyone has been saying. And then add some more. Wink 1) Getting new shoes for me made has made a huge difference the two times I was injured. Go to a running store and talk to them - you may not need new shoes, but it is definately worth the time to at least visit. 2) If you have to stop a run short, this is OK! You need to listen to your body! Dont try to "make it up" the next day (or even worse - the same day!!!). Cross-train if you want for the same time (or shorter or longer), but dont push! 3) More stretching, ice, heat, and maybe NSAIDs probably wont hurt and may help. I dont know how much of these are you already doing, but you might want to try some new stretches or whatever. Good luck! Feel better!


              A Dance with Monkeys

                The answer is always shoes, until proven otherwise. What shoes are you wearing? How many miles do they have? And where did you get them? Shoes should be fit by a running shoe specialist (i.e., not in the Footlocker or New Balance stores), after watching your gait while running and examining your last pair of shoes. Shoes should generally get no more than 300 miles on them.


                Needs more cowbell!

                  Shoes should generally get no more than 300 miles on them.
                  I know the rule of thumb is 300-500, but I am starting to think that I must wear my shoes out a little on the fast side. I got about 250 miles on my first pair of shoes and my current shoes are right around that mark, too...and I've been having more issues with shin splints in the past couple of weeks. I thought it was mostly an issue of stress and not enough sleep, but now I have to wonder if my shoes could be partly to blame. Are there certain types of runners (or running strides) who wear their shoes out prematurely? I'm not exactly light on my feet, not sure if that would be an issue. k

                  I shoot pretty things! ~

                  '14 Goals:

                  • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                  • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


                  A Dance with Monkeys

                    The rule of thumb really is 300 miles or about 6 months, whichever comes first. Not 500. The bigger you are (no offense intended, I'm talking about JN after all) the faster they will wear out. The more you run in wet conditions, the faster they will wear out. The more times they are used in a week, the faster they will wear out (which is why I have 2-3 pair that I alternate so that any single pair has a chance to dry out fully and recover between uses).


                    Prophet!

                      I was a 'big boy' and now i'm a slightly smaller 'big boy' so my shoes lose their bounciness very fast and feel flat after about 2 to 3 months. The bigger problem for me is that when I get tired, i drag my heel of my shoe and so the outer sole of my heel gets worn out really fast, which speeds up the demise of the shoes. I'm hoping that this will improve with time.


                      Needs more cowbell!

                        The bigger problem for me is that when I get tired, i drag my heel of my shoe and so the outer sole of my heel gets worn out really fast, which speeds up the demise of the shoes. I'm hoping that this will improve with time.
                        Yeah, I've got that going on, too. Won't be long before my outer heels wear through to the cushioning part of the sole. I think I may have to look into a new pair very soon. I'm going to see how the next couple of runs feel and/or once I am better rested. I'd still like to get 50 more miles out of my current shoes (especially since the Holidays already have the purse strings straining hard), but if I can't, oh well. k

                        I shoot pretty things! ~

                        '14 Goals:

                        • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                        • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


                        Needs more cowbell!

                          The more you run in wet conditions, the faster they will wear out. The more times they are used in a week, the faster they will wear out (which is why I have 2-3 pair that I alternate so that any single pair has a chance to dry out fully and recover between uses).
                          I was thinking about this during my morning run (which was, BTW, MUCH better than most of my runs of late...I'm sure 2 better nights of sleep in a row helped greatly). I had a little bit of that right foot numbness, but no noticeable pains or tightness. So I decided to order a second pair of my shoes. 2 reasons I think this was a good idea...1. this way I will know for certain if any of my issues are due in any part to worn-out shoes, and 2. I will have an older pair to use when it's a sloppy mess outside, which will likely start this weekend (we are under a Winter storm watch as I type this). I also found them in my size for about $35 less than I had originally paid for my current pair. I have run under wet conditions quite a bit in the last couple of months, so maybe that is a factor if my shoes are wearing out a bit early. I've only had them 3 months, so they are still "young."

                          I shoot pretty things! ~

                          '14 Goals:

                          • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                            The rule of thumb really is 300 miles or about 6 months, whichever comes first. Not 500.
                            Wuss. Why I remember back in the day, we used to run 3,000 miles on a pair of shoes. If we were lucky enough to have them. Sometimes, we just wore rocks on our feet. And we liked it, I tell you. We liked it.
                            E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
                            -----------------------------

                            vicentefrijole


                              I know the rule of thumb is 300-500, but I am starting to think that I must wear my shoes out a little on the fast side.
                              You're not alone... I like to retire my shoes at 250... sometimes even 200! I don't know if they're really all "worn-out", but they don't feel good anymore (if I try to go further with them, my feet/knees/back hurt) and the new ones do. To me, that's worth the extra money I might spend every year on an extra couple pairs of shoes. And, BTW, I'm not a heavy guy, so it's not only about body weight... I think the model of the shoe and your personal running biomechanics must have some effect also. The shoes I love are really comfortable and lightweight, but durable they are not! Also, I agree that water seems to make a big difference. I don't worry about getting them wet when I run (they're tools, afterall, not a piece of furniture) but I am compulsive about drying my shoes out afterward... I like to stuff them with newspaper (change the newspaper frequently). I suspect that putting them in the clothes-dryer would be a bad idea.
                              vicentefrijole


                                Wuss. Sometimes, we just wore rocks on our feet.
                                ... and we carved running socks out of oak...
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