Forums >Running 101>Why do I lean back and how to correct it?
Joggaholic
So today I was running intervals on the track (this log), and after I was done I got some advice from a coach who was there (he was working with a high school runner), and I am trying to make sense of the feedback he gave me (not much words, so that's why I'm doing a lot of guessing here).
First thing he said was that I need to lean forward to carry the momentum, which I think he's implying that I lean backward when I run fast (not sure how badly). He's right because sometimes I do notice that, I am not sure why, or how to fix it other than trying to be conscious of it when I run. I don't notice it if I do normal easy runs though. I want to know if this is a symptom of my form trying to compensate for something? I took the coach's advice and tried leaning forward a bit when I was doing cool down jog around the track, and I noticed more force/effort upon my knees and quads, and the run felt harder (or maybe I was just tired at that point). Could it be that I was leaning back because I lack the strength to land and push with a forward lean?
Also the coach mentioned something about my running being "choppy", I wasn't sure what he meant. My guess was that I tried to speed up by increasing turn over but my stride stayed relatively short? If I work with this angle it supports my theory above of not have enough strength, and instead of increasing stride length I had to rely on higher cadence.
Of course the reason I post is because I don't really know what I am talking about, and need better opinions.
I had exactly this problem about two years ago. I would lean back at the hips when running fast. I got some good advice in this thread: http://www.runningahead.com/forums/post/523857ff9c704718aed0b7d1a55f2862#focus
Shoes that are lower to the ground with a lower drop (4mm) help my form a lot - I land more mid foot-ish, or at least with not quite as drastic a heel strike, and more under my body, so I can push off better with the forefoot, if that makes any sense. In my case, I suspect general weakness in hips and core, due to recent pregnancy, also played a role. Hill running and bounding help a lot with that.
Wow, that was some serious unsolicited advice from that guy, though! Like, it sounds like you didn't ask for it, he just informed you. Not sure how I would've felt about that!
mta: sorry no advice re: "choppy" running, though I'm not sure lengthening the stride is necessarily what we're after? I think you'd need to post a video in order to get feedback on that one.
Why is it sideways?
Good advice from runharriet (and Nobby on that other thread.)
Hills are the key here -- find a short, steep hill and incorporate 10-15s hill sprints up the hill in your routine. Pay attention to how you use your body to generate power up that hill.
#artbydmcbride
Maybe he felt your knees were coming up too high (re: the choppy) I would be wary of trying to mess with your form too much. You are an excellent runner already. Jeff is right (as usual) running hills will give you more lean, but organically.
Runners run
Linda
A book called Brain Training for Runners by Fitzgerald significantly helped me improved my form. In it, he gives visual exercises to help you improve your form. One visualization cue that helped get up straighter was to imagine that you are being pulled by harness strapped to your chest. That isn't the exact words.
IG profile @lindasig_runs
Headsweats Ambassador Discount Code "LINDASIGRUNS"
Over 45 PR's: 5K - 21:21, Half - 1:39:49, Full - 3:33.47
Jeff's hill charges are a good exercise for this. The way I see it is that they are mechanics drills and not meant to increase your fitness. It probably won't help much if at all if you do 10 X hill charges every week if you're doing them wrong. So the most important thing about those charges is to do them 'correctly' - way more important than getting up the hill as fast as you can. I think it's good to repeat what Nobby said from that previously linked thread ...
" When you push the ground, at the moment of take-off, you want your entire body, from the top of your head all the way down to the toes, to be one line...get the image? Many people today, by only plodding along and never learn to "run" tend to have this straight line, from the tip of your head to the heel, backwards when you land--get the image? This is because you're "sitting in a bucket" as you run
It's hard to work on correcting form by picking one part at a time and try to change that one part.
You'll really have to work on it as a whole movement and a flow. It will get better as you work on hills, forcing your body to push back with your back-leg. Some, when their legs are too weak, tend to still sit back and try to bring their knees up (finally!) to gain momentum. But you'll very quickly find that it's even harder doing it that way. You get on the stairway (to heaven!!) and go up, taking 2 steps at a time, concentrating on the posture. You'll very quickly find it's harder to go up by simply bringing your front leg up and drag your body later... It's so much easier to push off and gain momentum that way. When you get it right, you feel like you're "rolling upward". THAT is the body position you want to carry on while running. By trying to change your form one piece at a time, you're more likely to get some sore spot because those parts will be working alone, not in sync with other parts of the body. You can't "sense" these things if you're trying to sprint up the hill as hard as you can (short hill sprint) because then your form goes out the window. Go up the hill, with slow forward momentum, focusing on good posture... That is the best way to work on your form; not focusing on individual parts.."
I think a good example of what he's talking about is this picture. Try to do them like the guy on the left and not the guy on the right (who surely must have been a second-rate runner).
Rudy Chapa on the left, Alberto Salazar on the right leaning forward and 'sitting in the bucket'.
This is wonderful thread. Thanks!
I, too, find that I have a tendency to lean backwards, and it takes all my concentration to get the forward lean at the ankles as opposed to my waist (it doesn't help that I'm a sloucher). Using hill workouts to focus on this makes a lot of sense. And I do find that my running seems more fluid when I am leaning and my foot strike is more mid-foot than heel, but as I said, I really have to concentrate to stay out of the backwards lean.
Leslie Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain -------------
Trail Runner Nation
Sally McCrae-Choose Strong
Bare Performance
I think a good example of what he's talking about is this picture. Try to do them like the guy on the left and not the guy on the right (who surely must have been a second-rate runner). Rudy Chapa on the left, Alberto Salazar on the right leaning forward and 'sitting in the bucket'.
Maybe I'm way off base, but wouldn't the guy on the right (Salazar) be in the same position (alignment) as the guy on the left with a finished hip extension/leg drive? To me it just appears the two of them are just slightly out of phase with each other in their stride. The guy on the left is about to toe-off and the one on the right just a few split seconds behind. I'm not sure what the "sitting in the bucket" term refers to. Is it referring to a pelvic tilt?
One thing that is different that I see is how Salazar's neck ties into his head and into his shoulders; it doesn't appear to be a naturally straight alignment-- his head is naturally set forward of his shoulders (I googled other photos of Salazar not running) and to me that makes it look like he is leaning his head forward when he's not. The guy on the left appears to have a naturally straighter alignment through the head, neck and shoulder. Or I could be wrong.
Thank you all for the replies, they're a great help. I need to get some hills into my running and focus on form then!
Self anointed title
Also... don't worry about it too much. An upright and choppy style never hurt Emil Zatopek
Don't know if this will help you or not. This winter I had some sessions with a PT and he had me run and I was told some of the same stuff. But man I've been doing it my funky way for so long, how to change it. I can in with ab pain that is still really not diagnosed, but is related to my hip flexor. His theory is that I run "quad heavy", landing on my heels and that my glutes and hamstrings and whole posterior chain weren't firing at all so my quads and hip flexors are doing all the work. Or something.
He had me focus on cadence first. Then on the leaning forward thing which I only sort of get a feel for. Hill charges would probably teach me. He actually had me on a non motarized treadmill and put a pulley on my back like stated earlier that made me lean forward to generate the power. He wants the power to come from the plant foot, the "rolling uphill" thing is a good visual.
But I needed (still do) strength building to really do this. My glutes and hamstrings practically were useless, so I had to do some strength building, stuff with resistance bands and just landing on one foot and balancing. My core and ass and hamstrings were too weak. Never thought about this but my knee on my plant foot always caved inward because I was too weak to balance on the foot, and that's energy lost really. Now I am cognizant of this even just climbing stairs, balancing on one leg without letting that knee in. I sit for a living which sucks for running.
Started by running 2 minutes on one off only 4 sets (imagine getting dressed for that). Just this stuff made my calves sore and my hips and hamstrings and ass so tired. And then just retraining your brain to run that way, stretch out the intervals and try to catch myself when form slips. I still stand up straight when I am tired.
I'm not running as much so hard to tell whether it is working. But if feels better. My ass and hamstrings and calves still get tired though, which means I am working them so that's good and I assume eventually that goes away.
Anyway my point is along with thinking about what to change you may need to do some strength building so that you body can actually do the thing you wish to change. My $.02.