Forums >Running 101>Half Marathon Half Wit?
RA Experts; I’m coming for a little advice again…. But before I ask the questions, some background….
I found RA online in April of this year. Prior to that I was a “really BAD runner”. It should be noted that I am still a “BAD runner” just now for other reasons!
I started running in Jan 08. I trained as fast as I could for as long as I could every time I went out the door.
I finished the ’08 year with a Dallas White Rock Half time of 2:07:07 and a nasty hip injury that kept me out until March 09.
I did a bunch of reading while I was not running but still came back too fast in March and really only realized how badly I was going wrong after finding this site and slowing down.
I changed my training pace and schedule but still had the problem of “a little knowledge being a dangerous thing”.
Here was my thought process:
When I was training badly and I did the WR Half in 2:07.
When I did that race I had to walk for over 2 miles …
Therefore I can run a half marathon in under 2 hours by the end of this year no problem!
So armed with the McMillan Running Calculator and nowhere near enough experience off I trotted….
I built up my weekly mileage to what is now a reasonably consistent 24-ish- miles/week and threw in some progressively longer races:
10k at the end of May under 55 mins – 8:48 pace just what McMillan ordered!
15k in July under 1:23 – 8:52 pace, again spot on what the pace calc said I should shoot for.
20k last weekend – 9:08 pace said the all knowing pace calc…. this is where the wheels came of my little wagon!
In my head, the race went something like this:
Mile 1: 8:52 – Woo Hoo! race day. White Rock lake is beautiful, what a great day for a race. I am king of my running world. This is fantastic. (Side note; my running world consists of guys over 30 years old and 210lbs who run slower than 9min miles!)
Mile 3: 8:52 – Steady! This is OK, it’s a little humid out here but we are rolling now. Look at all the smiling people!
Mile 5: 8:59 – Erm ….. Blowing a little hard here, 7.4 miles to go. This is going to be more difficult than I thought. On we push!
Mile 6: 9:01 – Why am I doing this again? this is not fun. This GU tastes like lukewarm snot. Not happy.
Mile 6.2: 9:50 – 10k split under 56 mins, that’s OK… but that’s only half way and I am dying here… and now we are going uphill!
Mile 6.75: 9:24 – BONK! I’m done! This is stupid (I am walking at this stage)
Mile 8: 11:54 – Running sucks, Asics suck, my legs hurt, my feet hurt, GU does jack, I want to go home.
Mile 10: 12:38 – At least this bit is downhill but this is still a stupid way to spend a Saturday morning. Brooks you suck and as for BodyGlide…. My @$$! quite literally!
Mile 11: 10:10 – I’m not sure if I have any dignity left but I’m going to finish this sucker running not walking, less than 2 miles to go.
Mile 11.5 – Who the ^&!%!!! puts a hill in the last mile of a 20k – I mean come on!!! Why am I trudging round this godforsaken, oversized, manmade puddle. (Walking again)
Mile 12: 11:43 – I will run to the end… there’s beer there, right? I gotta get there before it all runs out.
Mile 12.2 – Garmin 405 says I’m finished, Garmin, you suck too. 0.2 miles to go
Mile 12.4 – Who cares about pace, this race was lost ages ago….. where’s the beer tent?
(Apologies to Asics, Brooks, GU, Body Glide & Garmin, you don’t really suck but I was not full of commercial luvvin this past weekend!)
So with two and a half months to go until my rerun of the White Rock Half I seem to be no closer to my race goal of a sub 2 hour half.
Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy my running much more now than I did when I was training badly and despite my in-race overreactions I am not about to toss in the towel nor let the disappointment of being slightly off track consume my very being!
What I am after is advice on a couple of things.
Training: My training schedule right now, 3 easy & 1 long runs a week, fits my schedule and I don’t want to alter it by adding more work outs. However, if I am training for a Half Marathon should I be doing a few more miles a week? Kick the easy runs up from 5 to 6 or 7 miles maybe? Or turn one of them into a faster tempo run etc..?
Race Day: I could make a whole bunch of excuses for last weekend but the reason I sucked is that I went out too fast. I guess I just need to slow down. Right now, given the training comment above, I am thinking that I would rather try to run, and not walk, the WR Half in December at a 9:30 pace than shoot for sub 2 hours and end up walking again. Is 9:30 pace realistic? Or do I just need to HTFU, stop whining and go out and give it another try at my goal pace?
Thanks for reading my drivel – apologies for the ignorance displayed in bucketfuls above – any and all advice appreciated.
Cheers MattJ
2017 Goals1) Run more than 231 miles2) Be ready for HM in the spring
an amazing likeness
Good writing there, Matt. Entertaining stuff, we like that here on RA. Post more often.
Looking at your log, there's a lot of things to like on where you are:
1. You're running pretty steadily;
2. You've got some longer runs in there.
Some areas you could consider:
1. Scooching your mid-weeks runs a tick longer. Without overdoing it.
2. Get a pattern of build steadily for a few weeks, then ease off. Repeat.
3. Move your longer runs out to 12 +/- miles.
Have you considered looking at some of the many half marathon training plans, like those from Hal Higdon (just as a one example) and adopting the pattern used, if not the actual distances?
mta: Didn't go a good job on your specific questions.
> Don't add speed to your training, add more distance if you can. Use run/walk mix to keep it easy when needed.
> Slow down on race day, run an effort that will work, rather than a pace.
> Let your training results set your planned race pace later, when you're closer to race day.
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion because you seem to have mastered many advanced theories in long-distance running including blaming your Garmin, questioning the meaning of running at the halfway point of a race and realzing the beer tent is where they keep the trophies. You show great promise.
Anyway, MilkTruck said almost all you need to know. Run more is almost always the answer but make certain to trust yourself more than an online message board or an online training plan. Take it easy if you feel tired, push yourself if you're feeling good. Patience and guts in non-equal portions.
Best of luck. I really enjoyed the post. I ran my first half-marathon in June 2008 in 2:05 and told myself that this was the dumbest thing I've ever done at the 10 mile mark.
"Good-looking people have no spine. Their art never lasts. They get the girls, but we're smarter." - Lester Bangs
Very entertaining race report. I wish I could learn that much from my own races. You are well on your way.
I also recommend Higdon. His plans work well for people - like me - who are just starting out.
Lank knows everything about sports. Listen to him.
What Asics model were you wearing? They have this new model which was designed by an evil physician named Rumpelstiltskin.
"If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus
you have about 8 weeks left. that's enough time to make some difference.
6 weeks averaging 30 miles a week would probably get you through at your goal pace. it doesn't matter a whole hell of a lot how you want to slice up that 30 miles as long as you have several long runs over 10 miles. a couple of them at 12 miles would be good if you can get them in. then taper down a bit on the last 2 weeks and you'll be ready. if you only want to run 20-25 miles a week, yeah... you'll have to slow down.
and now, some good news... after 8-3/4 miles White Rock's half marathon course is all downhill.
Prince of Fatness
I know you don't want to do this but adding another day is the place to start. Right there that puts you over 30 mpw with minimal impact on your body.
The next thing I'd do is take one of your week day runs and work it up to around 90 minutes. And work your long run up to two hours. I would think that you could get to those points in a month or so. Don't worry about the miles, just get the time on your feet.
And be patient. You don't get in shape overnight.
Not at it at all.
You've got lots of training time until Dallas White Rock! If you increase your weekly mileage you should be able to hit sub - 2. I think (not that I'm an expert either) that you'd benefit most from more miles right now.
Also not go out too fast, be careful on that - but the more mileage you're running a week and better your endurance, the better you'll be able to handle if you do go out a little fast and correcting without completely bonking.
Hello Matt,
Have to agree, your writing was entertaining. You should look up and join our Half Marathon Trainers group.
As for your training, you've already received some great advice.
- Don't worry about speed at this point.
- Keep up and increase your mileage (I'm going to go see if I can see your log afterwards).
- Find a schedule and follow the general format, but don't be afraid to alter it to fit your needs
Some things I didn't recall being mentioned.
Are you doing any cross training/core exercises in between runs?
Nutrition! What are you doing for nutrition on your long runs? Some people don't think for a HM, that you need to be concerned about it, I on the other hand feel strongly that you need it. If we were all top conditioned runners, okay maybe we could get away without it. But we aren't. Might be why you've bonked before.
Some reading I've done strongly suggests you should start nutrition within 30 minutes of starting a long run. Too many people wait too long and the body is completely depleted and it takes time for it to get into your system.
So not knowing if you've been working on this, the question becomes what to take? Gel Paks (I don't care for them), Sport Beans, Sharkies, Powerbars, Gatoraid/Powerade, others.
If you aren't experimenting with these now, you need to start. One so that it'll help improve your training runs and 2nd to see what works for you and what doesn't.
I'm not an expert, I've only been running for 6 years and getting ready to run my third HM this weekend. So take what I say lightly or ignore it if you think I'm full of S***.
Larry
LPH
"Today I broke my record for most consecutive days lived!"
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Great post by OP, very entertaining race report. I hope he can get a more comfortable first half next time, leading to a much better second half.
(Lank's list of advanced racing mastery was a riot too.)
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
Consistently Slow
Run until the trail runs out.
SCHEDULE 2016--
The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff
http://bkclay.blogspot.com/
Hang in there and start slow. I read a post somewhere on here that you should do the first 6 and feel like you are holding back a little to pace yourself. Then, it's just two 5K's to the finish line.
Congrats on finishing! I ran the 10K that same day at White Rock. Planning on doing the Half in December and I'm sure it will go something like what you described because it will be my first! Hang in there and start slow. I read a post somewhere on here that you should do the first 6 and feel like you are holding back a little to pace yourself. Then, it's just two 5K's to the finish line.
Or alternatively, run a season-best 5K, 90 second PB for the first 10K, stagger 11.1 K and collapse across the finish line.
I beat my 'generic round number time goal' this year with that strategy, while the negative split one got me almost there last year.
I find for myself, I can push a little harder after having pushed too hard the first half of a race, but the race is much more predictable, and more enjoyable, negative split than positive.
My comment is going to run counter to most everyone else here. From looking at your log, it seems all your miles are slower than race pace. I say drop one of your easy 4-5 mile runs, and replace it with a harder effort run. Run, say, 3 miles at a tempo pace, or at least faster than your intended race pace.
My opinion is that you tired so quickly in the 20K not simply from an endurance standpoint, but because the pace was so much faster than your normal training pace.
Thanks for all the comments folks!
To make sure I’ve got it …. I’ll try and summarize.
Training Plans – Thanks, I’ll check them out. I have never really “planned” before, just tried to get my mileage up.
Go longer – This I think I can do and I was kind of expecting.
Go more often – Warning, excuse time….. With the kids, work & travel I will really struggle here. Best I can probably do is throw in the occasional 5th run in a week when it permits. I don’t suppose it will do any harm?
“Run a lot. Mostly easy. Sometimes fast.” – dennrunner has also hit the nail on the head for me and I think this has been some of my problem since April though there are obviously much more experienced runners than me who have posted above who may not agree. I have been kind of following the “run, always easy” method for a while and think maybe I could throw in a tempo run or something like that. If I swapped out one of my “easy” 5 miler’s for a 1 mile warm up, 3 miles @ McMillan Tempo pace (for me 8:47 to 9:10) and then a mile cool down would that be any benefit or just a stupid thing to do?
@ NaderAlfie – GT2140’s. Despite my stated midrace aversion I have had GT21XX shoes since they brought out the GT2100’s. I had them before I was “running” and needed something to hit the bricks on during rugby training. I love ‘em.
@ Larry – No core exercises. Need to get on that. For nutrition I have settled on ShotBlocks (for now) but will try them out a little earlier in the run. Right now I eat ‘em between about 50 & 90 mins. I really do not like GU I am giving my unopened packs to my 4 year old. He seems to love that kind of stuff and if he has it in a gel pack to eat then maybe he’ll stop pulling it out of his nose! I also joined the group you suggested. Will try to be active there and more active here.
@ eklein – Good luck with your training, see you around the course in December!
Thanks again everyone – really appreciate the advice and support on RA – will try to be around more often.
I have been kind of following the “run, always easy” method for a while and think maybe I could throw in a tempo run or something like that. If I swapped out one of my “easy” 5 miler’s for a 1 mile warm up, 3 miles @ McMillan Tempo pace (for me 8:47 to 9:10) and then a mile cool down would that be any benefit or just a stupid thing to do?
That's one of my favorite workouts, a great way to add a bit of speed without a lot of stress. You could bring the pace to the slow end or a little slower. For instance, my McMillan pace is 3:36 to 3:45 /k , I usually run that workout at 3:45-4:00 when I'm coming back to speed after a base period. After a few weeks it comes down into the range.