A practical application of socialist ideas (Read 1168 times)

    Change.

    Reduce the power of lobbyists.

    Reduce the partisanship

    Reduce America's dependence on old fuels, on old infrastructure, on old disagreements

    Rebuild a middle class, rebuild and streamline manufacturing

    Strengthen science and math and education

    End the wars

    Etc.

     

    How has he fared over the past 3 years with these items?


    And a good leader will have people that follow....

    2014 Goals:

    #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

    #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

     

      And a good leader will have people that follow....

       

      Actually, good leaders are often highly polarizing. They make people reflect on whether they are actually committed to the pragmatism and moderation that is key to democracy or whether they are more interested in their specific and more narrow interests.

       

      MLK had a 30% approval rating when he was shot. If you are strong enough to make changes, chances are you will piss off a lot of people.


      Feeling the growl again

        Change.

        Reduce the power of lobbyists.

        Reduce the partisanship

        Reduce America's dependence on old fuels, on old infrastructure, on old disagreements

        Rebuild a middle class, rebuild and streamline manufacturing

        Strengthen science and math and education

        End the wars

        Etc.

         

        The first word was his platform.  That's what got him elected, that one word... "not Bush".  That's all that was on the bumper stickers and all people talked about back then.  Regularly when I would push them for specifics (this was pre-election mind you) they could not tell me anything.  They were simply voting for "change".

         

        As for the rest, yes he has had issues with the legislative branch -- yes a lot of this is politics -- but if he'd meant the part of bipartisanship (which he threw out the window on the first real disagreement) we didn't necessarily have to end up here.

         

        Plenty of Presidents have had hostile Congresses yet found ways to work with them.

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         


        A Dance with Monkeys

          How has he fared over the past 3 years with these items?


          And a good leader will have people that follow....

           

          Well, EGH3's linked story suggests that he is doing pretty well, and that success ≠ popularity.


          A Dance with Monkeys

            The first word was his platform.  That's what got him elected, that one word... "not Bush".

             

            Well sure. But McCain was not Bush too. That "Change [from Bush]" Was not why I voted for him.

             

            "Anybody but Bush" could have gotten McCain elected. It did not.


            We will see if "Anybody but Obama" will get a Republican elected.  If it is Newt, I'd be surprised. I'd imagine you would be too.


            A Dance with Monkeys

              bipartisanship...

               

              ... requires TWO parties to play. From day 1, the Republicans in office have not been willing to play, no matter how traditionally conservative some of Obama's policies have been.


              Feeling the growl again

                All fair points. This is personal anecdote again, but I also have an immigrant in my house (my wife), and we were extremely frustrated by the process of immigration. However, we are not angry at those who came here without papers at all. Actually we identify with their hardship and are glad that as bad as our experiences were trying to immigrate the legal way, we are very happy that we had a legal possibility to move where we as individuals wanted to live instead of having to perform civil disobedience or live in constant fear of the police to make the lives we dreamed of. Smile

                 

                I can understand this viewpoint.  However, while I am sometimes frustrated by needing to work/save long and hard to buy something I want, it doesn't make it alright in my mind for someone else to steal it so they don't have to go through the legitimate process to get it.

                 

                Nobody ever said it would be easy.  Some say it's too easy (see Starship Troopers; the real book not the movie).

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 

                  Well sure. But McCain was not Bush too. That "Change [from Bush]" Was not why I voted for him.

                   

                  "Anybody but Bush" could have gotten McCain elected. It did not.


                  We will see if "Anybody but Obama" will get a Republican elected.  If it is Newt, I'd be surprised. I'd imagine you would be too.

                   

                  This. (odds right now are that Obama will be re-elected.)


                  Feeling the growl again

                    ... requires TWO parties to play.

                     

                    This is true.  However someone that ran on a "reach across the aisle" platform, who subsequently rejects that fully upon the first difficulty doing so, is hardly a good leader or serious about trying to make bipartisanship work.

                     

                    Look, I'm not totally absolving the Republicans here.  I'm likely to be voting against a lot of incumbents here in a few months.  However we were talking about Obama, as a leader, and I don't see giving up immediately as following through on a promise.

                     

                    Oh, and how's that "I'll close Gitmo" thing working out?  Wink

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     


                    A Dance with Monkeys

                      how's that "I'll close Gitmo" thing working out?  Wink

                       

                      1/500

                       

                      Obama's long game. 

                        I'm one of those guys that's expressed disappointment in Obama on a number of occasions. But he did a few things that are pretty incredible when you consider the united, dug-in opposition. And he did promise quite a few while campaigning.

                         

                        Continued the bank bailouts started by GWB. I hated it but the alternative was worse - CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Love it or hate it, passed an economic stimulus that at least prevented a full-on depression

                        Ended the Iraq war - CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Passed financial industry reform (not strong enough, but again, massive opposition to anything) CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Created Consumer Financial Protection Bureau - Kinda/sorta CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Killed bin Laden - CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Imperfect as it is, passed massive healthcare insurance reform - CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        We still have an auto industry in Detroit. 

                        Ended DADT - CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Cut taxes for 95% of the population - CAMPAIGN PROMISE

                        Appointed first Latina to the Supreme Court

                         


                        Feeling the growl again

                          Well sure. But McCain was not Bush too. That "Change [from Bush]" Was not why I voted for him.

                           

                          "Anybody but Bush" could have gotten McCain elected. It did not.


                          We will see if "Anybody but Obama" will get a Republican elected.  If it is Newt, I'd be surprised. I'd imagine you would be too.

                           

                          McCain was painted as a Bush extension.  That, and he made himself look like a buffoon in the closing months (Exhibit 1:  Palin).

                           

                          I was not trying to insinuate that it was YOUR reason for voting that way, I would expect you to be a bit more sophisticated.  However, most people are not and the marketing ploy was effective on a broad scale.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                            I can understand this viewpoint.  However, while I am sometimes frustrated by needing to work/save long and hard to buy something I want, it doesn't make it alright in my mind for someone else to steal it so they don't have to go through the legitimate process to get it.

                             

                            Nobody ever said it would be easy.  Some say it's too easy (see Starship Troopers; the real book not the movie).

                             

                            I didn't catch the reference, but yes I understand reasonable people disagree on all of these issues and that much depends on our political intuitions (which seem in many cases to get hardened by discussion.) 

                             

                            Not that I think it will convince you (since both of us have very sticky political intuitions), but you can also see why someone might not think this analogy of shoplifting doesn't hold. As your own experience with immigration I'm sure shows, you can't analogize the legality of someone stealing a consumer product with someone uprooting their entire life and moving to a different country in order to remake themselves. I see the issue of immigration as a human rights issue about the autonomy of individuals to move their bodies and families in order to chase a better life rather than as a legal issue.

                              Cut taxes for 95% of the population - CAMPAIGN PROMISE 

                               

                              You can't count job losses and the inability to find a replacement job as a tax cut or a reduction in a person paying taxes

                              Smile

                              (just kidding).

                               

                              the economy is not Obama's fault, nor is it Bush's.

                              2014 Goals:

                              #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                              #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>