A practical application of socialist ideas (Read 1168 times)

    Now there's a screaming baby in the thread.  Not that this is something new.

    Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


    A Dance with Monkeys

      Now there's a screaming baby in the thread.  Not that this is something new.

       

      Now there is:

       

        Is that Trent's baby?

        Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


        A Dance with Monkeys

          not that he is aware


          Fast is better than long

            If you're looking for reasonable, I suggest doing something about the companies putting their headquarters in the Carribbean so they can declare their profits off-shore and pay no US taxes -- or license a big fee to an off-shore subsidiary to shift all their profits out of the US...

             

            Agreed, but can we just try and eat the elephant one bite at a time?

             

            Show of hands who thinks the system is not broken in fair number of places

            2014 Goals: 2500 miles / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16:30 5K

             

            Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;
            Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

            What in the Jehu?

              Smile

              Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                Since we are all over the map already, I will link an interesting and perhaps counter-intuitive analysis of economic trends from a colleague of mine. Good for shaking us out of the assumptions that the left and right would have us believe.

                  Agreed, but can we just try and eat the elephant one bite at a time?

                   

                  Show of hands who thinks the system is not broken in fair number of places

                  It is. I say we take some big bites.  Starting with the entities AP described, not small businesses. Then, look at individuals who "because of capital gains, pay a tax rate that’s much lower than what most U.S. wage earners will ever enjoy."


                  "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


                  Fast is better than long

                    Since we are all over the map already, I will link an interesting and perhaps counter-intuitive analysis of economic trends from a colleague of mine. Good for shaking us out of the assumptions that the left and right would have us believe.

                     

                    Educational article, or it exposed my inadequacies.

                     

                    Question about this section:

                    It is also the case that any society with a lot of “threshold earners” is likely to experience growing income inequality. A threshold earner is someone who seeks to earn a certain amount of money and no more. If wages go up, that person will respond by seeking less work or by working less hard or less often. That person simply wants to “get by” in terms of absolute earning power in order to experience other gains in the form of leisure—whether spending time with friends and family, walking in the woods and so on. Luck aside, that person’s income will never rise much above the threshold.

                     

                    I did not see anywhere that it said what percentage are "theshold". Is there an estimate on that p[ercentage? and isn't the difficulty determining the threshold, as it likely differs from one to another. Not everyone wants off the escalator at the same floor.

                     

                    I do agree that we almost all get to the point of satisfice or at least we get to what I thought used to be termed comfortable and then we level off into a coast vs. rising.

                    2014 Goals: 2500 miles / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16:30 5K

                     

                    Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;
                    Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

                    What in the Jehu?

                      Since we are all over the map already, I will link an interesting and perhaps counter-intuitive analysis of economic trends from a colleague of mine. Good for shaking us out of the assumptions that the left and right would have us believe.

                       

                      Thanks for the link.  Don't know what to make of it, but I have one comment regarding what I've read....

                       

                      Alan Krueger defines middle class as 1/2 median income to 1.5x median income.

                      With the median income in 2010 @ $49,500, that makes the range of middle income to be $24,750 to $74,250.  I wouldn't have guessed that would be the range for middle income.

                       

                      I'm also guessing that other economists may define middle class different from how Alan Krueger defines middle class.

                       

                      ----

                      summary / thoughts: $25k seems low to be considered "middle class".

                       

                      MTA: and I challenge anybody in the USA to do a "wiki" search for the definition of "middle class in USA" this morning.  Apparently SOPA has changed our ability to search wiki.

                       

                      MTA2: found a link to Krueger middle class definition.... still don't think the numbers are real as it relates to the 50% of Median.  http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/288099/alan-kruegers-definition-middle-class-reihan-salam

                      2014 Goals:

                      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                      #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                       


                      Lazy idiot

                        MTA: and I challenge anybody in the USA to do a "wiki" search for the definition of "middle class in USA" this morning.  Apparently SOPA has changed our ability to search wiki.

                         

                        Check back tomorrow.

                        Tick tock

                           

                          summary / thoughts: $25k seems low to be considered "middle class".

                           

                           

                          It is low, but in some areas it might suffice for a single, young person. I earned that or less than that for most of my 20s, teaching HS (started at $28k) and in grad school (20k stipend) and could live just fine off of it; I did not feel like I was in poverty.  With a family or without adequate health care it would be really hard/impossible, and it was also nice knowing that I could fall back on my own family for support (I imagine most folks with this sort of income rely on an extended familial support network.)

                           

                          To some of Pauly's points about percentages, I think the point is that most of us fall into the camp of shooting for a certain income and being "chill" with it. If this is the case, then the income gap is not so bad--we actually choose it.

                           

                          One implication of the analysis, perhaps, is to make us check ourselves a little when we complain about taxes ('tis the season!) because really we have probably more or less chosen this income level, and we could make a choice to earn more, but have decided that we like the lifestyle that goes along with it--and that lifestyle probably wouldn't change much even if our taxes went up 10% or down 10%.

                            summary / thoughts: $25k seems low to be considered "middle class".

                             

                            And the high end of $75k seems exceeding low.

                            Runners run.

                              And the high end of $75k seems exceeding low.

                               

                              I think for the purposes of this analysis, the idea is that folks in the 25k-75k range constitute the middle class--folks who are in danger of falling back into poverty, but who do not live in poverty. Upwards of 75k, you are upper-middle class: though it may be tough or you may not be able to live in like the best school district, you are not worried about poverty.

                                It is low, but in some areas it might suffice for a single, young person. I earned that or less than that for most of my 20s, teaching HS (started at $28k) and in grad school (20k stipend) and could live just fine off of it; I did not feel like I was in poverty.  With a family or without adequate health care it would be really hard/impossible, and it was also nice knowing that I could fall back on my own family for support (I imagine most folks with this sort of income rely on an extended familial support network.)

                                 

                                To some of Pauly's points about percentages, I think the point is that most of us fall into the camp of shooting for a certain income and being "chill" with it. If this is the case, then the income gap is not so bad--we actually choose it.

                                 

                                One implication of the analysis, perhaps, is to make us check ourselves a little when we complain about taxes ('tis the season!) because really we have probably more or less chosen this income level, and we could make a choice to earn more, but have decided that we like the lifestyle that goes along with it--and that lifestyle probably wouldn't change much even if our taxes went up 10% or down 10%.

                                 

                                I don't doubt that people earning money in those ranges (ie. < $30k) can make it and survive (been there myself for a few years while raising a young family, and did it without incuring debt).


                                I think one of the universally accepted considerations of those within the middle "class" is an ability to buy extras in life.  Who knows what extras would be, but I'm guessing that it might include a car that is more than simply functional (ie. > $1,500 value), some level of entertainment (dinner / movies, baseball game), leisure (5k / 10k race entry fees), etc.). 

                                 

                                Back when I was a struggling young dude with a young family, money was very tight, and extras weren't possible.  I wouldn't have considered myself middle class at that time. 

                                 

                                But, .... all of this is separate and apart from Jeff's link. 

                                2014 Goals:

                                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                                #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>