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Intervals, or whatever you want to call them (Read 898 times)

L Train


    This pertains to marathon training. I'm preparing for a fall marathon and have an OK base built of easy miles, hills, and some tempo work. From what I understand, I should add some speedwork in the form of intervals or strides. From what I gather, it will help recruit muscles easy miles don't work, it will help my form and it will help me get used to and maintain faster turnover, even for a marathon. Obviously correct me if I'm wrong on the benefits. My question is how to do them. I don't have a track available, and I suck at the metric system. I don't know how far 200 or 400 or 800 meters is. So what I have done the last two sessions is a 2-4 mile warm up, then ran a little better than 5K pace for 60 secs, then easy for 2 minutes, then hard for 70 secs, then easy 2 min, and so on until I get to the 6th one that's 2 minutes hard. The first time I did this I was surprised at what it took out of me. The second time was better. But even though it's hard on me I can't help but think I'm being too easy on myself. I also imagine I'm not doing it properly, maybe I should do the hard longer and slower (or shorter and faster) and maybe my rest is too long at 2 minutes. I imagine it's different for whatever length race you are targeting but am interested to hear what people say. Finally, last question - today's workout was in a cutback week - is there a problem doing this in a cutback week when I'm suppossed to be gathering strength for the next 4 weeks? Thanks for any feedback.

     

      If you don't have a garmin or a track near by, then doing them by time is a good way to go. Someone around here sometimes recommends doing hard/easy reps by time. Like 3 mins hard / 3 mins easy or 5 mins hard / 5 mins easy. From what I've read, longer intervals (1/2 mile and up) are better for marathon training than shorter intevals like 200m or 400m. The training plans that I've used for marathons prescribe running the intervals at 5K pace. Sounds like you are on the right track. Maybe push the hard part out to the 3 to 5 minute length instead of 1-2 minutes.

      When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?


      A Saucy Wench

        Agree - doing them by time is just fine. And also agree that since a marathon is your goal, do longer intervals at a slightly slower pace. Given your current 5K time, I would say ~ 3.5 - 4 minutes is a good length. My "highly scientific" pace for this length of intervals is for the first minute it should feel too damn slow, but by the last minute you should feel like "I can finish this but I am sure glad it isnt longer". I struggle with intervals because I am a long slow runner by nature. I sometimes have a hard time even getting down to 10K pace on my intervals Rest time for intervals is generally roughly equal to interval time, but that can vary depending on your goal.

        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

         

        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

        mikeymike


          For long distance training I like to keep the rest short compared to the work. My two favorite time based workouts are: 8 x 2 minutes on / 1 minute off and 3 x 8 minutes on / 3 minutes off. The 8 x 2 workout I do at ~ 10k pace and the 3 x 8 workout I do at tempo pace which is somewere between 15k and half marathon pace. Both of those are pretty hard workouts and I would't do them if I was taking a down week. Strides are different from intervals in that they are very short but fast bursts. 8 x 20 seconds with 45 second jogs is good. Strides can be done once or twice a week or more even in an easy week. They are not a workout and don't really take much out of you. Mostly they help with form and turnover. I also think they help keep your legs loose.

          Runners run

            ... I suck at the metric system ...
            I'm convinced the metric system is a covert French attack on American society. Or maybe its the Canadians. Or maybe the French Canadians! In any event, Google is your friend. Type "800 meters in miles" into any Google search box, for example, and you'll get the conversion result in real units. This little tip works for all kinds of metric and other scientific hooha conversions.

            How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2.

            L Train


              This is exactly what I needed. Short synopsis is I probably need to slow them down a little so that I can extend them further (that and just get a little better trained). All of you seem to agree on that. Mike, the 3x8 workout initially sounded like it would kill me, but at 10K to 1/2 marathon pace I'm sure its do-able. It's probably good practice in trying to find that pace anyway. Thanks all for the help.

               

                I don't pretend to be an expert, but one of my favorite fartlek workouts is: 10 min warmup 10 min fast 5 min cool down 5 min fast 3 min cool down 3 min fast 2 min cool down 2 min fast 1 min cool down 1 min fast Cool down pace until I get back to my house. The 10 min fast is at roughly marathon pace and you will get faster as your intervals get shorter.


                SMART Approach

                  Great advice and really like MikeyMikes. To simplify things you can do the 3X8min work out at 15K pace or just do 3 working up to 5 X 1 mile at hard tempo or around 15K pace and finish work out with 4-8 X 100M quick striders with full recovery. This is a great mid week work out with some miles before it and some miles after it to make it a mid week longer run with quality. Excellent work out! As marathon get closers, start doing a bit more race specific work or longer tempos at goal pace followed by the striders.

                  Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                  Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                  Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                  www.smartapproachtraining.com

                  mikeymike


                    Good point, Tchuck. Lance, I would normally do either of those workouts in the middle of a long-ish run. Usually one of my 2 longest runs of the week. I think it's key to do a long (3-4 miles) cooldown possibly with a few strides. Having to run 3 or 4 miles home, even at an easy pace, after a workout when you're tired is great aerobic training. It also seems to make recovery easier.

                    Runners run

                    RunAsics


                    The Limping Jogger

                      I don't know how far 200 or 400 or 800 meters is.
                      FYI. 1 mile = 1609.34 meters.

                      "Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is."

                      HOSS1961


                        I did 1 mile intervals with 1/2 time rest for 4 weeks . Now I am doing the following pyramid: 12min fast/6 min recovery <tempo 10="" min="" fast/5="" min="" recovery="" 10k="" pace="" 8="" min="" fast/4="" min="" recovery="" 5k="" pace="" 6min="" fast/3="" minute="" recovery=""></tempo><5k pace for me it ends up being a good workout and i get 7+ miles in to boot. i also tempo 1 day a week. pace="" for="" me="" it="" ends="" up="" being="" a="" good="" workout="" and="" i="" get="" 7+="" miles="" in="" to="" boot.="" i="" also="" tempo="" 1="" day="" a=""></5k pace for me it ends up being a good workout and i get 7+ miles in to boot. i also tempo 1 day a week.>
                        HOSS 2009 Goals Have a healthy back and run w/o pain! Drop 15 pounds gained while injured
                        RunLuluRun


                          Do you have access to a treadmill? That's where I do my interval workouts, and they're tough, but very fun. I warm up, then do 3 minutes hard, 2 minutes easy, 5-6 repetitions.Within a workout, my "hard" intervals get progressively harder: the first burst I do at around 7.5mph, then "easy" involves either a fast walk (4mph) or a slow jog (5mph). Second burst is 8mph, then I do a few at 8.5, peak at 9 or 9.5, and then come back down, usually doing the last "hard" burst at 7.5 or 8 again, and ending with an easy jog to cool down. Usually ends up being a 30-40 minute workout, ranging from 3-4 miles. It's a lot less time consuming than an easy training run or long run, obviously, but it wears me out a lot more. Towards the 3rd or 4th "hard" interval you start feeling it in your chest a minute or so into the "hard" bursts. You're putting your anaerobic system (does not rely on oxygen) to work as opposed to your aerobic which you use primarily in a paced training run. I would not recommend doing this workout without a solid base, because if your muscles aren't ready to support this type of stress, you're in for immediate injury. Also start with speeds that work for you, and remember that though the first "hard" burst may not feel very "hard" at first, once you are on your 3rd repetition you will be feeling it. Warm up is very very important, and it is also important to keep your heart rate up on your "easy" intervals by continuing to walk/jog-- never just stop. Also, hydration-- I get off the treadmill as if I've just gotten out of a swimming pool after this workout. I try to drink during all my "easy" jogs, but not too much. Also, don't fall off the treadmilll Smile I enjoy this workout very much because it keeps things interesting and I jam to my trance music. Usually when I'm training (I only do half-marathons right now) I do this workout twice a week, and I consider it a hard workout, so I try to cushion them between days of easy workouts. have fun!
                          protoplasm72


                            I do a similar workout to mikey but do it by miles instead of time. I start at 4x1mile repeats @ 10k pace with half mile recoveries (MP + 1 minute) and work up to 7x1mile @ 10k pace in my peak weeks. They are not short workouts but neither are marathons. In mikey's terms my workouts come out to be 4x7min with 4.5 minutes rest. Working up to 7 repeats, admittedly I rarely hold 10k pace for all 7 repeats.

                            Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get. -- Homer Simpson

                              My question is how to do them. I don't have a track available, and I suck at the metric system. I don't know how far 200 or 400 or 800 meters is.
                              Most runners consider 4 laps to be a mile. Its not exact since a mile is 1609 meters rather than 1600 meters, but, for the purpose of simplicity: 200m = 1/2 lap around the track = 1/8 mile = 0.125 mile 400m = 1 lap around the track = 1/4 mile = 0.25 mile 600m = 1.5 laps around the track = 3/8 mile = 0.375 mile 800m = 2 laps around the track = 1/2 mile = 0.5 mile 1000m = 2.5 laps around the track = 5/8 mile = 0.625 mile 1200m = 3 laps around the track = 3/4 mile = 0.75 mile 1600m = 4 laps around the track = 1 mile The extra 9 meters is about the same as running for a 1st down in football.
                              otodawD


                                My question is how to do them. More importantly is the question why you should do them. I'm late to this thread but I'll chime in. The purpose of intervals is to improve aerobic capacity or VO2 max. The ability of your aerobic engine to use oxygen. The higher your capacity the faster and better you run. You still need long runs and tempos but don't short the intervals. It also takes a fair length of time for your interval work to improve VO2 max. 2-4 months. They should be part of a weekly program of training. At the distance of 400 meters the pace should be 10-15 seconds faster per mile than your 5K pace. Slightly slower as the intervals lengthen to 800 or 1200 meters, Put a slow jog recovery interval between each 400 of 2-4 minutes and this workout is a killer. Enough since I'm so late .
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