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| Long run max when building your base (Read 707 times) |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 1:28 AM |
| I just tried to do a search because I know this has been covered before, but I can't remember what the recommended mileage is when you're building your base. I know the 10% rule. How long should your long run be (approx) each week compared to the rest of your miles? |
| Nothing rhymes with Winkle |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 1:43 AM |
I've heard as a general rule about 25%-35% of your total weeks mileage... with exception when doing 20 milers for marathon training.
Jaosn |
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| view log Hawt and sexy |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 2:11 AM |
| Usually a long run should be about 25% of you weekly mileage. |
| All your base are belong to us. |
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| view log Blaine Moore |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 2:16 AM |
| Generally speaking, 20%-30% is good. I am in agreement with what's been said, that 25% is a nice easy number to go for. |
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Nobby415 |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 2:26 AM |
Sockoni:
My recommendation is not to get into any pre-determined numbers. I don't necessarily buy that famous "10% rule" either. I was contacted a couple of years ago about this 10% rule--this guy wanted to confirm that it actually came from New Zealand's Arthur Lydiard. Lydiard was one of those people who didn't care much for any predetermined number type of rules. It turned out; most likely, in the 1970s, some magazine guy asked him what would be a good "rule" and, knowing Lydiard, he probably didn't give any set number. "How about 10% increase? Does that sound reasonable?" Most likely, Lydiard answered yes. There, according to Lydiard, 10% increase is good. You do realize, of course, this 10% rule would give you more and more increase as your mileage goes up (2 miles a week increase for 20MPW; 9 miles a week increase for 90MPW). Well, a common sense tells you; you should go easier as your total weekly mileage is higher. If fact, if you're a beginning runner and "only" doing something like 20MPW, you could possibly even double the mileage and you might be fine!
Now, so the long run max (real question); it all depends as well. When my wife ran her first marathon, she was doing probably 25MPW max and her longest run of the week was up to 18 miles one shot! Perhaps not a kind of thing even I would "suggest" as a general rule but if you know yourself and your situation and circumstances, it may be perfectly fine--or better yet; might work better than trying too much. In her case, she was in a sales and she walked around a lot during the day. I figured her daily stress should be counted as a physical demand. I encouraged her to do at least couple of times of easy jogging during the week (2~3 miles); but we layed-out the weekend long run as THE key workout. Particularly women seem to be able to handle this type of program--they don't seem to do well; whereas men (including myself) seem to have to "do more" to "do well". Does this make sense? But anyway, my approach is to pick one (in my wife's first marathon's case) or two (usually) "key workouts" and you fill in the rest of the week. The girl I'm coaching, in her case, she did one long run (weekend) and one hill workout (ala Lydiard) and she filled in the rest of the week. She would jog about 2 other days; one day a week she used to play sofball (now volleyball) and one other day she might do "spinning" class at the club...something like that. She did 3:41 (see, I started FIRST program even before they came up with it! ;o)).
I think the key is to move gradually up to 2-hours run at comfortable pace regardless of how many miles it may be. You don't need any "formula"! ;o) |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 4:21 AM |
Thirty percent of your total weekly mileage is a good round figure to shoot for in a long run. You can and need to go up to fifty percent or higher for short periods of time such as when training for a marathon, but for base building, stick to the thirty percent figure. Of course none of these percentage "rules" mean much unless you are running more than 15-20 miles a week. Under that and all your runs will be pretty much the same length.
Tom |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 5:14 AM |
I need to be running 44 miles/p/w to do a 13 mile long run???? come-on.
I must be doing something extremly wrong. I think I was only doing 30-35 mpw when I ran a HM. |
mdmccat
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 5:48 AM
modified: 1/15/2008 at 5:50 AM |
| Quote from mdmccat on 1/15/2008 at 5:14 AM: ... I think I was only doing 30-35 mpw when I ran a HM.
I must have been on the same program. I was doing 30-35 mpw for the 3 weeks leading up to my first HM and 25-30 a few weeks before that. |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 7:03 AM |
| Quote from mdmccat on 1/15/2008 at 5:14 AM: I need to be running 44 miles/p/w to do a 13 mile long run???? come-on.
I must be doing something extremly wrong. I think I was only doing 30-35 mpw when I ran a HM.
They are saying to have your body properly ready and trained for it. I know there are people that don't run that could probably go out and run 5 miles but that doesn't mean they should. |
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Scout7 view logCPT Curmudgeon |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 12:26 PM |
The 25% rule belongs up there with the 10% "rule"and the whole 220-Age formula. Rule of thumb only.
I know as many people who can break these mileages guidelines as there are people who can't even get close to them without causing problems.
Your biggest concern will be time. 2 hours is a pretty good amount to work towards. Some of this will be based on your schedule, and some on your goals.
There are no hard and fast rules when it comes to this stuff. Every person responds differently. |
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Sine labore nihil.
Dulcius ex asperis. |
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Beatin' on the Rock |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 12:34 PM |
| Quote from Figbash on 1/15/2008 at 4:21 AM: Of course none of these percentage "rules" mean much unless you are running more than 15-20 miles a week. Under that and all your runs will be pretty much the same length.
Tom
Wow. And I thought I was doing really good. Guess I better quit now?  |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 1:32 PM |
| Quote from willamona on 1/15/2008 at 2:11 AM: Usually a long run should be about 25% of you weekly mileage.
25% seems a bit extreme. That would mean you'd have to get up to an 80 mile week in marathon training when you want to include a 20 mile long run. Most non-elite plans peak well below that.
Agreed in concept though, at the very least, a majority of weekly miles should be non-long run.
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Nobby415 |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 1:39 PM |
Arthur Lydiard organized the first ever jogging club in the world back in 1961. It worked well back then and I believe it still works well today. He taught us that, the first thing we need to do is to run 15 minutes without stopping regardless of how far or how fast you're running. Once you can run 15-minute without stipping, every second or third day, you increase the duration of the run to 20 minutes. Always go back to 15 for recovery. Then once you feel comfortable with 20 minutes, make it 30 with other days still going back to 15 (for recovery). This is where Hard/Easy days concept started, popularized more by Bill Bowerman and/or Oregon system.
Thos longer runs actually help develop muscular endurance to go even further.
I just thought about this when I was looking at the formula of 3-3-3-3; then 3-3-3-4; then 3-4-3-4... Not necessarily criticizing it; but I feel 15'-15'-30'-15' type of schedule would work better simply because the distinction of long days-short days is more prominent. Now, that's just a knit-picking difference; I know. But, pardon me, but weekly mileage increase of 1 mile seems way too cautious. I personally don't like 10% rule--I know it works fine for a lot of people. But I think sometimes people think too much. Human body can handle a lot more demand than most people think. Most of injuries probably come from ill-fitted footwear and inproper running technique. Just my opinion... |
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Scout7 view logCPT Curmudgeon |
posted: 1/15/2008 at 1:46 PM |
| Quote from Nobby415 on 1/15/2008 at 1:39 PM: Most of injuries probably come from ill-fitted footwear and inproper running technique. Just my opinion...
I agree with that, and would probably add too great an intensity level, too soon. I see a lot of people wanting to put the cart before the horse by trying to throw in all kinds of speed / strength sessions way to early. Most people would benefit from a higher consistency level and more frequency than by trying to go out and run a whole bunch of intervals. |
Amat victoria curam.
Sine labore nihil.
Dulcius ex asperis. |
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posted: 1/15/2008 at 1:47 PM |
Thanks everyone! What I'm finding is I'm able to stay out there longer, which I love. I would like to increase my 8 miler to a 9 mile run, which is what got me asking the question. By the time I've got my 20 miles, it's turning into only 3 days a week. I want to be semi-structured this time around and not fall prey to the too much too soon syndrome. So maybe I'll focus on gradually increasing my weekly mileage by sticking another day of running into the week first, to make it four, and then increase my longest run later. I feel like I've been at this forever and am still at the baby stages, but I want to get it "right" this time.  |
| Nothing rhymes with Winkle |
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