RunningAHEAD - Topic: Hill workouts...?

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Hill workouts...? (Read 808 times)

Ennay view log Bif! Bam! Pow!	posted: 4/4/2008 at 10:49 PM modified: 4/4/2008 at 10:56 PM
	Where I live the 2 biggest steepest hills both have cemeterys at the top. Really gives the term "killer hill" a bit more weight. MTanswer the original question.... I have rolling hills that I incorporate in all of my long runs. Heck even my short flat runs are hilly by midwest standards. But I have a beautiful rolling road about 1.5 miles from my house that has rolling hills for about 6 miles. I have a hill loop that is steep enough that I always try to get a mile warmup before I hit it. Fortunately it is a mile from my house so this is not hard. It has a long hill that gets progressively steeper as you climb, a short steep down, followed by a long hill that alternates up and flat sections for 4 hill repeats (although you never really recover), a long slow down hill and then a fairly short but ungodly steep uphill section. Then a long slow downhill home. I run at the trails by the zoo with my HTC team once a week from April to August. These hills are steep and unrelenting and the team keeps a fast clip...it is probably the hardest run I do, but it is short. I rarely do anything so boring as hill repeaters.
	Beware the Pink Boxing Gloves of DOOM! "It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds" - Captain Hammer 2009 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM M I failed the 12 minute run in 11th grade...

cgerber view log	posted: 4/5/2008 at 12:55 AM
	Quote from sherpagirl on 4/4/2008 at 9:59 PM: I am training for a 50 in the mountains. San Juan Solstice?

sherpagirl view log Sherpagirl	posted: 4/5/2008 at 3:45 AM
	No Bighorn ... Maybe next year
	If you're bored ask why you're boring

cgerber view log	posted: 4/5/2008 at 4:11 AM modified: 4/5/2008 at 4:11 AM
	Oh cool... I've heard that run is incredibly beautiful. Steve Pero's photos from that run were awesome!

Nobby415

posted: 4/6/2008 at 8:54 PM

Just running over hilly course is not quite "hill training" though you will gain some benefit that way as well. As with all the other workout, it should have specific purpose--if you want to do it that way.

Hill training can be number of different workouts; it can be resistance workout, it can be technique workout with resistance, it can be tough anaerobic workout. Whatever you decide to do, you need to think about capitalizing your strengths and strengthening your weaknesses.

If others pass you over the uphill section but you catch them on the downhill section and you really haven't done anything specific with hills, you may be a natural downhill runner. You can work on your uphill running skill and stay with them and get ahead on the downhill part. You can achieve that by simply running over hilly area.

Hill training, done correctly, can improve your speed quite a bit. You would want to exaggerate your running action going up with a good running posture, emphasizing your ankle flexibility and knee lift. This could even help your endurance for longer events like half~full marathon because you'll get generally strong. By carefully selecting a portion of downhill section to perform downhill striding, you can improve your leg-speed tremendously as well that would help your shorter distances.

People's perseption can be slightly off--Athen Olympic marathon champion, Noguchi, says that she doesn't like downhill so she took off to gain some lead over the uphill section of the marathon course (at about 25k mark, I think...). But I personally thought she would win because I thought she's a strong downhill runner; that, if she took off on the downhill part, nobody will catch her. Kenya's Ndereba was gaining on her on the final kilometers but her lead was big enough that she captured the gold. I don't particularly like uphill but I have done lots of hill training that I seem to pass people on uphill section. I still like dowhill better.

If you don't have much hills around the area, you can still gain the same, or similar, benefit by running up the stairs or use parking ramp, etc. Running up the stairs can be just as good of an exercise as uphill running. One time a couple of years ago, the girl I'm coaching and I were warming up for hill training when terrible thunder storm flew in. The road was too wet and slippery and the wind was too great that it could be even dangerous to be on the road (with traffic), we decided to run into the near-by 9-stories building and did hill training on the steps. We went up and down for about 50 minutes and that turned out to be one of the best workouts that we did for that season.

mikeymike

view log

posted: 4/6/2008 at 9:10 PM

I do 3 kinds of workouts I consider "hill workouts."

1.) My Tempo + Hill workout:
-Jog 2 miles to nearby lake,
-run 3.2 mile tempo run around the lake,
-jog 3/4 miles to the base of a 1/3 mile long hill that gains 100 feet,
-run 4 or 5 x hill not super hard, but pretty hard, jog back down,
-jog home over hillls.

2.) Hill charges:
After a lenthy warmup (maybe like 5 miles into a 6 mile loop) do 10 x 20 seconds up a steep hill, slow jog down

3.) Long run over hills:
-I have a 15 or 17 mile route with assloads of big hills and run this a couple/few times each marathon cycle.

zoom-zoom view log Registered for #2	posted: 4/6/2008 at 9:19 PM
	Quote from Nobby415 on 4/6/2008 at 8:54 PM: Just running over hilly course is not quite "hill training" though you will gain some benefit that way asIf you don't have much hills around the area, you can still gain the same, or similar, benefit by running up the stairs or use parking ramp, etc. Running up the stairs can be just as good of an exercise as uphill running. One time a couple of years ago, the girl I'm coaching and I were warming up for hill training when terrible thunder storm flew in. The road was too wet and slippery and the wind was too great that it could be even dangerous to be on the road (with traffic), we decided to run into the near-by 9-stories building and did hill training on the steps. We went up and down for about 50 minutes and that turned out to be one of the best workouts that we did for that season. This makes me chuckle...we live in a town of 2k people--no buildings with more than 2 stories and no parking ramps within an hour of us...or sizable hills. I think I need to stick to flat races. In HS we used to run this during track practice: I'm afraid of heights and the thing sways and is on top of a very tall and steep bluff...I'd get horrible vertigo. Last Summer my son and I took a road trip to visit my folks and went to the tower. We only made it up to the first main level before he cried "uncle." I was glad of it...I once conquered my fear of that tower, but 15+ years away brought the fear back. We had some great hills in my home area, too. I'd kill to be able to do training there, again.
	Kirsten '07: 1324.5 mi '08: 1561 mi ... • Ladies Locker Room • .: 2009 Goals :. • Run 1750 miles • 2 marathons (May - Bayshore, Fall - ?) • PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k? ~ HM ~ 26.2 • 1st trail relay (North Country)

Nobby415

posted: 4/6/2008 at 9:52 PM

Zoom-zoom:

Okay, that'll be a bit challenging... I was going to actually say stadium seat at high school??? We did some during the winter because it was easier to remove snow but then it became too slippery... You can also find some gentle hills on a golf course or park??? I actually shovelled some snow so we can do bounding during this past winter. If I know how to add the picture, I would show you but I'm too stupid and computer illiterate! It's not that much of a hill--not even 100m--but if you do bounding up, that's more than plenty! But that tower would do too! ;o)

Mikeymike:

Just the one I wanted to talk to! Say, are you coming to Cross Road before Boston? I think it's on Saturday (even with women's trial on Sunday) that all the old-timers would gather around. Coach Squires has been coming as well in the last couple of years. Lorraine (Moller) and I will be planning on going there. Stop by. I'll double check the date but it's usually around 2PM (Coach is usually late because he needs to hop off the buss for the course tour for elite runners).

mikeymike view log	posted: 4/6/2008 at 10:53 PM
	Nobby, You mean Crossroads the pub? I won't be in town on Saturday--planning to go in on Sunday early to watch the women's trials and pick up my number with one or several of my li'l ones. I saw Coach Squires a few weeks ago at New Bedford but didn't get a chance to say hi--saw him across a crowded room. I saw him at the same race last year and talked to him for a bit. He's a classic.

Ennay view log Bif! Bam! Pow!	posted: 4/6/2008 at 11:32 PM modified: 4/6/2008 at 11:35 PM
	Quote from Nobby415 on 4/6/2008 at 8:54 PM: If others pass you over the uphill section but you catch them on the downhill section and you really haven't done anything specific with hills, you may be a natural downhill runner. You can work on your uphill running skill and stay with them and get ahead on the downhill part. You can achieve that by simply running over hilly area.. I found your whole post quite interesting...I seem to do better on rolling hills than on flat. (Not just vs. other people, virtually all my PR's are hilly courses). I feel like I gain more on downhills than I lose on uphills...I wonder if that is because of how I normally train or if I am a downhill runner or whatever. What I was noticing today is that running uphill my legs relax and my lungs are pushed to the limit and downhill I can regain my breath but my legs are pushed. So overall I feel less stress I guess. I especially seem to do well in races that have an uphill not too long after the start (not right away though ) followed by a decent downhill stretch. It really feels like the downhill momentum gets my legs used to turning over quickly and then I carry that into the rest of the race. Where if a race is flat, I just cant get that kick going as well. Is that completely weird? Now I used to hate hills...I used to be an awful uphill runner, but my legs got really strong when I was running preggo and it seems to have carried over. Zoomy---where is that tower? it looks really familiar...and scary as hell.
	Beware the Pink Boxing Gloves of DOOM! "It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds" - Captain Hammer 2009 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM M I failed the 12 minute run in 11th grade...

slowgino

view log

posted: 4/7/2008 at 5:15 AM

Quote from Ennay on 4/4/2008 at 10:49 PM:

...I run at the trails by the zoo with my HTC team once a week from April to August. These hills are steep and unrelenting and the team keeps a fast clip...it is probably the hardest run I do, but it is short...

How does your HTC team pick who runs legs 8 and 9? IIRC either 20 or 21 is dusty as h*** and I wouldn't run it for anything. Driving up in the van to the start of leg 22 we saw at least one runner wearing a dust mask... flashlights did them little good... our guy on that leg ran off the road in the poor visibility.

Trails by the zoo? Have you ever started down at lower "McC" at "B" creek under the bridge on "T" street, gone up past the stone house to upper "McC", across "C" road, up to the mansion, down to cross "B" street, and of course from there you know how to get up to the zoo...?

Nobby415

posted: 4/7/2008 at 11:24 AM

Quote from mikeymike on 4/6/2008 at 10:53 PM:

Nobby,

You mean Crossroads the pub? I won't be in town on Saturday--planning to go in on Sunday early to watch the women's trials and pick up my number with one or several of my li'l ones.

I saw Coach Squires a few weeks ago at New Bedford but didn't get a chance to say hi--saw him across a crowded room. I saw him at the same race last year and talked to him for a bit. He's a classic.

Mikeymike:

Is "Crossroads" one word? Yes, the pub. I guess that's the new Eliot Lounge. I think it's Saturday but I'll double-check.

Nobby415

posted: 4/7/2008 at 11:30 AM

Ennay:

I guess it's not entirely "weird"...some people would do really well in cross country races than roads or track races. They are, in general, very efficient and they can "glide" over rugged and undulating courses. But if your, say, 5k time over hilly course is better than 5k time over flat course, then the issue might be that you haven't trained your body to run fast--could be mechanically and/or anaerobically. If you want to post a fast time, naturally, attempting to do so over a hilly course (unless is all downhill) is not the way to go about. You might want to consider doing some very fast training to get your body used to running fast and go for record.

Ennay view log Bif! Bam! Pow!	posted: 4/7/2008 at 1:55 PM
	Quote from slowgino on 4/7/2008 at 5:15 AM: How does your HTC team pick who runs legs 8 and 9? IIRC either 20 or 21 is dusty as h*** and I wouldn't run it for anything. Driving up in the van to the start of leg 22 we saw at least one runner wearing a dust mask... flashlights did them little good... our guy on that leg ran off the road in the poor visibility. Trails by the zoo? Have you ever started down at lower "McC" at "B" creek under the bridge on "T" street, gone up past the stone house to upper "McC", across "C" road, up to the mansion, down to cross "B" street, and of course from there you know how to get up to the zoo...? we have lots of masochists on our team, so fiinding people to run the dust isnt too bad. We usually wear dustmasks/bandanas although I try to avoid those legs too. I ran 10 last year and had a blast. I am one of the mileage bunnies on the team so I usually get one of the longer total mileage legs. I'll be in van 2 again...since it is my van..so I might end up with 9 sometime. We meet at the zoo because at least 1/2 the group works or lives on the west side and its easier to get in/out and park there right after work. We just do a short hilly fast run...I'm not all that familiar with the routes coming up from the portland side...I live way out in Forest Grove. It sounds like that route will be fairly long? We also like to stay off the pavement at that time of day. By July we are grateful for the shade on the trails since we run at peak heat time. But if your, say, 5k time over hilly course is better than 5k time over flat course, then the issue might be that you haven't trained your body to run fast--could be mechanically and/or anaerobically. Nobby - I suspect you are right. I tend to have a flatter pace curve--which right now is indicating to me not enough speed work. I have pretty much just been working base for quite awhile now. Get my base, get injured (not running related) got my base - got pregnant - got my base got injured (too much too soon after baby) etc. Finally feel I am in a strong position to really start the faster work. But I have crappy ankles so I know I have to be careful with too much speedwork. - The concept that I could have a pace worth worrying about is still novel to me so I am ok if it takes time - I've already progressed farther than I ever thought I could. Besides...where around here do I find a FLAT race?
	Beware the Pink Boxing Gloves of DOOM! "It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds" - Captain Hammer 2009 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM M I failed the 12 minute run in 11th grade...

Anya_ view log Opps, I married a Vulcan	posted: 4/7/2008 at 7:46 PM
	I may suck as a fast runner, but, I can DO hills. LOVE them. When I see a big one, I sort of drool.. We stayed at a ski resort last year ( in Michigan no less, Crystal Mountain ) and I did the "mountain" each day. Well, it was sort of just a big hill, but it must have been 3 miles up...
	- Anya

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