Forums >Racing>Correlating % of Max HR to effort in Races?
Okay, in some ways this is a continuation of my "How do you push through the pain?" thread.
I was looking through some of my past races to try to help me set my expectations for where my HR should be as my race progressed in my half marathon coming up next weekend.
It helps me to tell myself not to freak out if I'm starting to hurt if I can see that my HR is still in a good place for that point in the race.
When doing that, I went back to the last half marathon that I raced that I wore a HRM while I was racing and was surprised that my HR was over 90% of max for the last 5 miles of the race.
Comparing that to my recent 2 mile race, it sure looks like I am not really going "all out" in my 2 mile races.
Do I get to a certain level of pain and my mind just says that's enough, let's hold it right there?
Here's another from an older 10K race.
My avg HR was higher for the last 2 miles of that race than the last mile of the 2 mile race.
How am I able to push those last miles of the longer race harder than I can push the last mile of a short race?
I've looked through some other folks logs who wear their HRM during races and there is generally a noteable difference in their HR numbers between the longer races and the shorter races, several of them almost 10 beats faster in the shorter races than the longer races. I don't know what their max HR is by looking at their logs though.
This all started Tuesday when I ran a 2 X 3 mile strength interval at my goal half marathon pace and started checking out my HR to see if I had a chance to sustain that for the full 13.1 miles.
The first 3 mile interval was with an 11 mph breeze and my HR barely even climbed, the next 3 mile interval was into that same 11 mph breeze and while my HR climbed it wasn't too far off my half marathon race numbers for the first few miles especially considering it was into the wind.
I'm over analyzing this I'm sure, but it peaked my interest as to why I seem to be able to put out a higher level of effort at the end of longer races than I am during the shorter races. I'm sure part of that is race specific training (or lack of it) on the shorter races, but some of it just seems that I hit a barrier around that 180-182 HR mark that I have a hard time pushing through until the final sprint at the finish. But I seem to be able to hold that 180-182 HR effort for a good while as well.
Oh well, if anyone can make any sense out of this or has any input they would like to add I'm all ears.
Hopefully this isn't so painful to read that I get a "Nathan talking HR O matic" made for me.
Thanks in advance for any input. Nathan
Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)
Current PR's: Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)
I dunno. I don't really speak HRM (never used one) but it looks to me like it just takes some time to get your hear rate ramped up. You hit a max of 182 (with an avg of 169) for the first mile, then a max of 190 (avg 181) for the 2nd mile. So your heart rate was climbing pretty rapidly throughout the race. That plus the fact that your heart rate was continuing to climb even though you ran the 2nd mile significantly slower, suggests to me that you were just about red lined.
Maybe someone who knows more about HRMs will have a different interpretation, but that's my 2 cents.
Runners run
How did you determine your max heart rate?
Your heart rate readings can be impacted by how dehydrated you are. This is particularly true of longer races.
I dunno. I don't really speak HRM (never used one) but it looks to me like it just takes some time to get your hear rate ramped up. You hit a max of 182 (with an avg of 169) for the first mile, then a max of 190 (avg 181) for the 2nd mile. So your heart rate was climbing pretty rapidly throughout the race. That plus the fact that your heart rate was continuing to climb even though you ran the 2nd mile significantly slower, suggests to me that you were just about red lined. Maybe someone who knows more about HRMs will have a different interpretation, but that's my 2 cents.
Thanks for the input. If I break my 2 miler down into 1/4 mile sections, it looks more like I hit that 180 - 182ish mark and then held it there until the last 1/4 mile. The first 1/4 was down hill, then a couple minor hills in there and the last 1/4 mile was back up that same hill again and that is where I actually started to push it in according to the HRM. It looks like once I got up in the 180ish range about 3/4 of a mile in, it held pretty steady for the next mile or so before pushing it the last 1/4.
According to the race predictor calculators I should be able to run sub 13 minute 2 miles based on my most recent 10K time. I don't stress about this during the race or anything that I'm aware of, I tried to run fast and easy and calm. After the fact I tend to try to analyze the heck out of it though.
I am not an expert and hopefully somebody smarter will speak up. That said, I think the problem is that these numbers don't tell the whole story. The heart rate isn't telling the whole story about where you are with anaerobic respiration, lactic acid, efficiency, etc. These numbers give some of the picture about effort but not the whole picture. And running a 2 mile race is quite different physiologically, I suspect, than running a 13.1 mile race.
I certainly wouldn't sweat a difference of 2 bpm between your 2-mile race and your 10k race. There are inter-day changes in what your max HR is that put this difference in the noise. It's likely that your HRmax on average is about 190-192. It is likely that you would be very close to it at the end if *either* a 2-mile race or a HM. If you race hard, a half marathon will have cardiac drift and that sucker will go right up toward the ceiling, so hitting 193 in a HM does not mean you were a wimp with 190 for a 2-mile. People who don't get their HR up near the max by the end of a HM are not doing it right in my not even remotely humble opinion.
All that being said, and I probably didn't answer your question, my advice would be to take the dang thing off for a race. Why would you want some data in your head potentially messing with your confidence? Learn to race hard by feel and you won't artificially constrain yourself when you get to the mid point of a race feeling good but your HR monitor is telling you to slow down.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
How did you determine your max heart rate? Your heart rate readings can be impacted by how dehydrated you are. This is particularly true of longer races.
I just say my max heart rate is the highest I've ever recorded at the end of a race. I thought it was 191, but evidently I forgot that I've actually hit 194 at the end of a race before. I know that some folks say you can add 5 beats onto that because you can't ever really get yourself to hit your maximum heart rate unless you are in a life threatening situation, but not sure if it matters what my "true" max is, the maximum that I've ever been able to get it to is 194. I've hit 193 and 192 several times at the end of races as well.
I could have been dehydrated a bit on that half marathon that I posted. It isn't my PR half marathon, but was the last one that I was wearing a HRM during the race. It was a tough race that I went out too fast on and suffered quite a bit at the end of the race, the slowest of those miles was going up a hill and that always affects my HR more than running on flat ground as well.
I don't think I could have been dehydrated on the 10K race that I posted though.
Here's it is split into 1/4 mile intervals. It looks like I was steadily increasing my HR the entire time, not just a burst there at the finish.
I think I was truly racing these and giving an all out effort, but the HRM says that I wasn't on my most recent 2 miler.
Yeah, again, I really don't see it saying that at all. The fact that you think it's saying that would be reason enough for me to say just throw the thing away and go race.
Also, what Joe said.
Feeling the growl again
I'm not sure why you think the 2-miler wasn't all-out. If we pick a HR you hit in both races, around 180, you were going much faster in the 2-miler at that HR than in the longer race.
People have different HR curves. Once you start to max that out, it's hard to draw any correlation between HR and pace and you did that in both the 2-miler and the 10K (mid/high 180s). I personally have a low max HR and the few times I've bothered to measure it it's not much lower in a 5K than a HM though the perceived effort is sure different. This is probably a hint at why I suck at short races.
I'm a third vote for quit letting the data torture you and just go race it.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
Okay, thanks for talking me off the ledge everyone.
I guess the key takeaway is that HR is one of several indicators of effort and not the only indicator.
From a purely subjective standpoint, I seem to think that as I've gotten better trained it seems to take more effort to get my HR up to the same number than it did when I wasn't as well trained. That may be part of the difference as the higher HR races that I was pulling the data from were from almost 2 years ago.
During a race the HRM usually motivates me to push harder rather than the other way around. If I am hitting 180 on mile 2 of a half marathon I am going to blow up whether I am wearing a HRM or not. Generally it will be pretty much on target with what I would expect and it will give me the confidence to maintain that pace or even pick it up a little. I actually can't recall a time when I slowed down because my HRM was telling me my HR was higher than it should be.
Thanks again for the input. Being an accountant I just so much want to be able to look at a number and have it tell me exactly what level of effort I am giving rather than all this subjective stuff!
From a purely subjective standpoint, I seem to think that as I've gotten better trained it seems to take more effort to get my HR up to the same number than it did when I wasn't as well trained.
This is totally normal. For one thing, your heart strengthens, your left ventricle enlarges, and you pump more blood per beat. So you're going to be doing a lot more work (by the scientific definition) to get your HR up there.
What is your resting HR?
I haven't taken it laying in bed like you are supposed to but I actually wore my HRM strap on my arm the other day at the office and averaged 53 for 10 minutes sitting at my desk. It dropped down to 49 a few times and would bump up to the upper 50's if I moved a little.
Thats good. Mine is low so I never tried HR training. I will trow up way before I hit max.
Only have one friend who does HR training but he is on dailymile.
Hope you aren't also married to an accountant.
wore my HRM strap on my arm the other day
What the? What kind of HRM strap do you have?