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| Marathon Training Scale-Back Weeks? (Read 443 times) |
| view log Runs With Snowplows |
posted: 6/15/2008 at 3:38 PM |
So in my cobbled-together training plan I have easier weeks planned about every 3rd week. I've done a reduction of about 25% each time, but am wondering if I might be better off with a reduction of closer to 2/3 of my volume, especially since I have been dealing with some nagging right knee issues (comes and goes, not getting worse, but not fully healed, either).
Thoughts? |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• 1st trail race |
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posted: 6/15/2008 at 3:51 PM |
Zoomy,
Looking at your last 6 weeks, the difference between 75% and 67% for you is only a little more than 2 miles per week. I don't think this will make a huge difference for you. Since your knee thing is not getting worse - you will be fine with either strategy.
Another thing to consider, is I don't remember you having problems with your knee until you started doing the strength workouts. Maybe the combo of those plus the running is a little too much for you right now. |
Your monkey gives me the creeps. - andahuff
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posted: 6/15/2008 at 4:02 PM |
Yeah, I just was playing with the #s and the difference is negligible.
As far as the knee thing, I started the strength training after my knee began complaining. It's definitely helped...the last week I've done minimal strength work with houseguests underfoot and the knee started bitching within a few days. I should be able to start getting out on my old bike a couple of times/week, now, so that should help, too. |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• 1st trail race |
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| view log Giants Fan |
posted: 6/15/2008 at 6:01 PM |
Zoomy,
Do you do exercises to strengthen the muscles around your knee?
CC |
Pain is temporary...quitting lasts forever.
-Lance Armstrong
Goals:
PR marathon in 2009
PR half marathon in 2009 |
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| view log Runs With Snowplows |
posted: 6/15/2008 at 6:37 PM |
| Quote from midwest runner on 6/15/2008 at 6:01 PM: Zoomy,
Do you do exercises to strengthen the muscles around your knee?
CC
Yep, I've been working on some quad strengthening stuff...squats, lunges, wall sits, squeezing a little inflated ball between my knees (kinda like a Thighmaster, hah!), some step-up things, leg-lifts, etc. I really want to start biking some, too. I have a basic old mountain bike that DH put smooth tires on. I'll probably not be doing more than 10-15 miles at a pop on it, so it should be sufficient. I'm sure someday I'll look at a real road bike, but I can get a tougher workout in with fewer miles on my heavy clunker.
As soon as I started the leg workouts I noticed my knee issues decreasing. I'm also avoiding the sandy trail stretch that I was running on (at least for a while) when I first noticed it a month or so back. And canted roads. |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• 1st trail race |
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| view log Giants Fan |
posted: 6/15/2008 at 7:41 PM |
That all sounds good! Not much more you can do huh? I do biking for my cross training and love it! I used to ride an old clunker too, got quite the workout in less than an hour. Finally got a new bike and have to say I love it. Love being able to adjust the workout based on my week. Easier for tough weeks, and vice versa. Just a thought. But I like it because I feel it in different muscles than my running. Good luck and keep us posted on how ya feel!
CC |
Pain is temporary...quitting lasts forever.
-Lance Armstrong
Goals:
PR marathon in 2009
PR half marathon in 2009 |
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posted: 6/15/2008 at 7:46 PM |
How bad is the pain when it is present. What percent of time it it present?
Some time fully off now could mean you do run a marathon this fall. Continuing to run without a full week or so off could mean you will not be able to run a marathon at all.
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Dave ~ Marathon Maniac #1166
www.daddyo.ca
Success is sweet and sweeter if long delayed and gotten through many struggles and defeats. |
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posted: 6/15/2008 at 8:05 PM |
| Quote from Daddyo on 6/15/2008 at 7:46 PM: How bad is the pain when it is present. What percent of time it it present?
Some time fully off now could mean you do run a marathon this fall. Continuing to run without a full week or so off could mean you will not be able to run a marathon at all.
Oh, it's not bad at all and not even noticeable some days or even on some runs. Twinges here and there, not really steady pain. But enough that I definitely want to eliminate it...it's just there enough to unnerve me, which is worse than any subtle physical pains.
About a year ago I had the same sort of thing, only it was much more severe--I couldn't even walk down hills, then (and in that case I think it was as much due to "too much shoe" as weak quads, as it resolved itself when I ditched the shoe I'd put 70 miles on). I would say that I'm really only noticing it 25-30% of the time and it's still more of a mild annoyance than anything more than that. Definitely better now than it was a couple of weeks ago, and even then it wasn't bad.
I did take a couple of easy weeks 2-3 weeks ago and that helped greatly. Concentrated more on the quad-strengthening work and cut my running back quite a bit. And I swear part of the issue has been all of the crazy weather of late (same stuff that has flooded much of the Midwest). I've had weather-related knee pain/arthritis since puberty, particularly on my right side (I can predict the weather like an old woman). Running for the past couple of years has actually helped with that. |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• 1st trail race |
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| view log |
posted: 6/15/2008 at 9:19 PM |
Wish I was as dedicated to strengthening exercises as you seem to me. I run on grass once a week when the
knee pain flares up. I stopped wearing the knee brace after the doctor basically said it only masking the
problem. I have knee issues only about once a month. Now, it has been about six months.
Good luck with the knee.
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Run until the trail runs out
2008 TARGET 150 MONTH
2009 TARGET 40/40 |
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| view log Hawt and sexy |
posted: 6/16/2008 at 1:31 AM |
Zoomy, I want you to look at my log and notice my current training paces. After you have done that I want you to look at my PRs and compare them to your own. Then I want you to ask yourself if you are in the same shape I am currently. If the answer is no, I want to ask you one question: What are you doing running at the same training pace I am? Slow down. I have a feeling most of your problems will go away once you slow down.
You seem to be closer to the shape I was in about Sept./Oct. of '06. Look at my training paces then, that is close to where you should be doing easy runs pace wise. |
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posted: 6/16/2008 at 1:41 AM |
| Quote from willamona on 6/16/2008 at 1:31 AM: Zoomy, I want you to look at my log and notice my current training paces. After you have done that I want you to look at my PRs and compare them to your own. Then I want you to ask yourself if you are in the same shape I am currently. If the answer is no, I want to ask you one question: What are you doing running at the same training pace I am? Slow down. I have a feeling most of your problems will go away once you slow down.
You seem to be closer to the shape I was in about Sept./Oct. of '06. Look at my training paces then, that is close to where you should be doing easy runs pace wise.
Hmmm...I've mostly been running my training runs within the ranges that McMillan recommends based upon my HM PR from last Fall (the last race I did that wasn't on snow/ice or while dealing major asthma issues), so my easy and long runs are generally 1.5-2 minutes/mile slower than that. I thought that was pretty standard...no? |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• 1st trail race |
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| view log Hawt and sexy |
posted: 6/16/2008 at 2:11 AM |
| McMillan gives great standards for elite runners. We, well, are not so elite. I am not saying we will not get there, just that right now we are far from that standard. His paces are very aggressive, you are probably training much closer to your current marathon pace than you should be. With a 2 hour half, your marathon is probably right around a 4:15 right now in ideal conditions. That is about a 9:45 pace. Marathon training should be done at a pace about 1 1/2 minutes slower than what would be current marathon pace. So, the fastest you should be doing easy runs right now is about 11:15 mm. This is not accounting for heat and hills, this is totally ideal conditions. Heat and hills can easily add an extra minute or two per mile. Does that make any sense? |
| All your base are belong to us. |
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posted: 6/16/2008 at 2:19 AM |
| Quote from willamona on 6/16/2008 at 2:11 AM: McMillan gives great standards for elite runners. We, well, are not so elite. I am not saying we will not get there, just that right now we are far from that standard. His paces are very aggressive, you are probably training much closer to your current marathon pace than you should be. With a 2 hour half, your marathon is probably right around a 4:15 right now in ideal conditions. That is about a 9:45 pace. Marathon training should be done at a pace about 1 1/2 minutes slower than what would be current marathon pace. So, the fastest you should be doing easy runs right now is about 11:15 mm. This is not accounting for heat and hills, this is totally ideal conditions. Heat and hills can easily add an extra minute or two per mile. Does that make any sense?
Very much so. And with our recent heat and humidity I probably have been pushing a bit more than need be--especially with the lung issues.
That's one nice thing with the Garmin, for certain. I do glance down from time to time and force myself to slow down. A year ago it was much harder to make myself slow down, since I didn't have that instant feedback on my wrist (nor the huge-ass tan line). I really need to start playing with that virtual training partner thing, or whatever that is...beeps when I go faster than a specific pace range. I keep forgetting that I can do that. Thus far I've really only used the Garmin as a recording device and way to gauge pace/distance/time while on the run. I haven't even used the HRM and I've had the blasted thing since around Thanksgiving.  |
Kirsten
• Ladies Locker Room •
.: 2008 Goals :.
• Run 1500 miles
• October 5 - 1st marathon - Milwaukee Lakefront - in my home state of WI
• PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k
• 1st trail race |
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| view log Hawt and sexy |
posted: 6/16/2008 at 2:47 AM |
| If you can stay honest on effort, you don't need a HRM. I needed to 'learn' easy and I did so using a HRM. If you can't stay honest in effort, then break out the HRM. It's hard to do, but well worth the time spent learning. I now go two days a month without the HRM (don't tell the MAFfers). Aunt Flo does not care for HRMs so I just go by effort on the first two days of her visit. Two years ago I would have gone much too fast without the HRM, now I know exactly what the right pace feels like. I think I could lose the monitor permanently, but then I wouldn't have anything to geek out over. I think I want a Garmin just for the geek factor. Meh. |
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posted: 6/16/2008 at 3:35 AM |
| Quote from willamona on 6/16/2008 at 2:47 AM: I think I could lose the monitor permanently, but then I wouldn't have anything to geek out over. I think I want a Garmin just for the geek factor. Meh.
Well we HAVE to have toys!!! I have had the HRM for 2 1/2 years and used it maybe 3 times. Truth be told I cant get the damn strap to stay up (the curse of the triple D). But I honestly rarely have a problem with running too fast. I have to kick myself in the butt to go anything but slow.
<geek> I wore the HRM once when I was ~ 7 1/2 months pg and had plenty of belly to hold it up, but that was just to test out one of Clapp's theories on maximal HR in the 3rd trimester vs. the 1st. Scientific study  </geek> |
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2008 Goals New PR's in 5K 10K HM, M What now?
I failed the 12 minute run in 11th grade... |
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