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The mid-week medium long run (Read 2940 times)

xor


     

    oh, cool, thanks.

     

    18 weeks is a long time to stay focused.

     

     

     

    I agree.  Pfitz also has 24 week plans.  Daniels stuff is either 24 or 26 weeks.

     

    Edited to add: and what anney said.

     

      A1 is on the 300/100 or thereabouts plan anyway.

       

        The mid-week medium long run is pretty critical to Pfitz training plans.  On the other hand I don't think a run of 2+ hours fits into the category of a medium long run, so the 2 hour limit shouldn't be a major issue.  I think if you can consistently get between 90 and 120 minutes in a mid-week run, you're in good shape.  The other thing is that midweek mid-long run is not supposed to be a jog, so don't be afraid to pick up the pace a bit, especially in the last 1/4 to 1/2 of it.


        I wouldn't try to "spread out" the miles over the other days.  Don't get too fixated on the number of miles--the overall plan has to fit into your life and every day has a purpose.  If you add 2 extra miles to a recovery run it (guess what) slows your recovery.

         Mikey, can you say whether she'd be better off with 5-14-5 v. 8-8-8?  Without getting hung up on the specific numbers, of course -- just the general concept of short-med/long-short v. med-med-med?  This would probably answer the question I asked (poorly) in another thread.

         

        Oh, and thank you, by the way.

        “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman


        The King of Beasts

           Mikey, can you say whether she'd be better off with 5-14-5 v. 8-8-8?  Without getting hung up on the specific numbers, of course -- just the general concept of short-med/long-short v. med-med-med?  This would probably answer the question I asked (poorly) in another thread.

           

          Oh, and thank you, by the way.

           

          I am not mikey, but..

           

          one of the reasons for the longerish run is to learn your body? you do a short easy run to shake out the day before, then do a good mid long run with some quality, then the third day another shakeout. 

           

          I find the up-down / easy-hard cycle easier to handle both physically and mentally, than the constant pounding of every day the same. 

           

          "As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett

           

          "I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”


          Lazy idiot

             

            one of the reasons for the longerish run is to learn your body? you do a short easy run to shake out the day before, then do a good mid long run with some quality, then the third day another shakeout. 

             

            I find the up-down / easy-hard cycle easier to handle both physically and mentally, than the constant pounding of every day the same. 

             

             

             

            On considerably less mileage than many responding here, I've tried both ways.  I'd agree with a1, variety keeps me going. 

            Tick tock

              Do you have the book? I think the recipe for the medium (and long) runs is  based on your target marathon pace:

               - first 1/3 is warmup (slower than what comes next)

               - next 1/3 is around 20% slower than your target marathon pace

               - last 1/3 is around 10% slower than your target marathon pace.

               

              whether that  takes you more or less than 2 hours will depend what your target marathon pace is.

               

              In my case, to target my BQ time of 3:45, (8:37 pace) I would supposedly run this on a 12 mile run:

              4 miles at 10:45 or slower

              4 miles at 10:20 (MP + 20%)

              4 miles at 9:29 (MP + 10%)

               

              That's just over 2 hours, unless I screwed up the math or my understanding of the book.


              A Saucy Wench

                 

                I am not mikey, but..

                 

                one of the reasons for the longerish run is to learn your body? you do a short easy run to shake out the day before, then do a good mid long run with some quality, then the third day another shakeout. 

                 

                I find the up-down / easy-hard cycle easier to handle both physically and mentally, than the constant pounding of every day the same. 

                 

                 +1

                 

                Although I have found the constant cycle (i.e. 8-8-8-8-8)  a valuable training technique when I am not training for anything in particular, just trying to build base.  If  I've been trying to ramp miles and struggling to get past a threshold evening it out AT the level I am currently at seems to provide a different kind of strain than continuing to push the build. The first week seems easy because there are no long runs, just all "normal" length run.  The second and third week  the constant breakless cycle starts to wear, but then I go back to a staggered easy/hard cycle with a build and the new miles seem almost effortless. 

                 

                 


                I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                 

                "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                   

                  I am not mikey, but..

                   

                  one of the reasons for the longerish run is to learn your body? you do a short easy run to shake out the day before, then do a good mid long run with some quality, then the third day another shakeout. 

                   

                  I find the up-down / easy-hard cycle easier to handle both physically and mentally, than the constant pounding of every day the same. 

                   

                   

                  What he said.

                  Runners run.

                     

                    What he said.

                     

                    But you are mikey.

                     

                    GST


                      Jebba, when I got my BQ last Nov I was on the same constraint of the Y (2 hr limit), and just did 1:50 (time to get back to the daycare section) at marathon pace. I think it helped A LOT.  you can send me aa message on facebook if you have any questions on that or why.


                      A Dance with Monkeys

                        Jebba

                         

                        sruiz, your reputation preceeds you...


                        what are lions?

                          was about to post a 101 new topic on 70+ mpw, and then saw this thread. my q (as an inexperienced marathoner) is how do folks schedule high mileage weeks w/o resorting to doubles, if employed or have a family? i'm just curious to see some training plans (for my own selfish benefit- lol).

                            was about to post a 101 new topic on 70+ mpw, and then saw this thread. my q (as an inexperienced marathoner) is how do folks schedule high mileage weeks w/o resorting to doubles, if employed or have a family? i'm just curious to see some training plans (for my own selfish benefit- lol).

                             

                            70 is just about where i find it a struggle to do it without doubles.  looking back at my schedule, the last 70+ weeks of singles were

                              5, 9 (tempo), 8, 11, 8 (speedwork), 14, 20 - 75

                              7, 5 (tempo), 12, 9, 10 (speedwork), 11, 21 - 75

                              10, 10 (tempo), 8, 13, 10 (speedwork), 11, 22 - 84 - (biggest ever week in singles)

                            i ran early, trying to get out/back before work - i must admit i was late to work on many occasions.....

                            .

                            with doubles, you need to find more times in your schedule as you obviously run (and get changed/shower etc) more often, but it is easier once you get the schedule worked out as you dont have so many of those "easy" 8-11 mile runs that you need to do with singles.  and once you get the schedule wokred out to do 10 runs a week it is pretty easy to build the miles up to the 80s, 90s and beyond by just adding a mile or two here and there.

                            - the grisly details http://alansmiles.blogspot.com


                            A Saucy Wench

                              5 am.  or 4:30 or whatever.  I'm not saying I am a party animal in the evening.  I've gone to bed at the same time as my 3 year old on several occasions.

                              I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                               

                              "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                              what are lions?

                                 

                                alan- your singles sched is awesome, but it is 7 days.  if i get strong enough where i don't need a recovery day after speedwork or a long run, i can hopefully attempt something like that. unfortunately, my days aren't structured enough right now to accommodate doubles.

                                 

                                ennay- lol- i've bemoaned the fact many a time that i'm not a morning person/athlete. i am, however, a night owl.  we're hoping to get a house soon where i could have a tm and get some miles in after my son goes to sleep.  i use the tm primarily for tempos or speedwork in winter, so that would make it possible for me to do doubles, if i had a slower run earlier in the day (typically lunchtime). as of now, i'm stuck w/singles.  it's not going too badly, but i'll probably max at 60-65 before my taper.

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