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The mid-week medium long run (Read 2943 times)

    I'm starting the Pfitzinger 18/70 plan in 2 weeks. Instead of wondering about things, I decided to test the waters and try out the first week early. I don't have a big repertoire of workouts nor the experience to know when and how to apply them, so this structured plan will be interesting to me. Today was 9 miles with 4 at LT. I picked 8:00 as my LT pace. It was not 'easy', but not really a hard workout. Three years ago, 8:00 was my PR pace for a 5K, so I've made some improvement over the last 2 years, despite my avoiding any real training. Weather-wise, I got off easy today with 59 degrees and lower than normal humidity. I think I feel about right for being ready to do 11 tomorrow. After this week, I'll do my usual running for a week, and maybe mix in some strides, then start the real plan on 6/21.

      I'm thinking about using the Pfitz 18/55 plan for my fall marathon.  I'm also looking at Hal Higdon's Advance 1 plan. 

       

      Just a rough comparison of the first week and the peak week in the two plans:

      Pfitz week 1: Rest/X-train, 8 w/ 4 @ LT, Rest/X-train, 9 easy, Rest/X-train, 4 rec, 12 kinda long = 33 total

      Pfitz peak : Rest/X-train, 7 w/ strides, 11 w/ 7 @ LT, Rest/X-train, 12 kinda long, 5 rec, 20 long = 55 total

       

      HH week 1: 3 easy, 5 easy, 3 easy, 3xhill, rest, 5 MP, 10 long = ~31 total

      HH peak: 4, 10, 5, 45 min tempo, rest, 10 MP, 20 long = ~ 55

       

      Pfitz definitely has you running longer sessions with 2 rest days a week.  where as HH has a couple low mileage days and only 1 day off a week. The Pfitz plan also totals about 75 more miles than the HH plan. 

       

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          Cool as a Cucumber

            I am not mikey, but..

             

            one of the reasons for the longerish run is to learn your body? you do a short easy run to shake out the day before, then do a good mid long run with some quality, then the third day another shakeout. 

             

            I find the up-down / easy-hard cycle easier to handle both physically and mentally, than the constant pounding of every day the same. 

             

            I don't understand. Can you explain the "learn your body" part some more? And I would expect a more constant stress level (7, 6, 7) to be more beneficial than an extra long run (4, 12, 4) in the week. What makes the long run so much better than constant but elevated running stress?

             

            MTA: fixing some grammar and making things clearer

            The pavement fears me.

              I don't understand. Can you explain the "learn your body" part some more? And I would expect a more constant stress level (7, 6, 7) to be more beneficial than an extra long run (4, 12, 4) in the week. What makes the long run so much better than constant but elevated running stress?

               

              MTA: fixing some grammar and making things clearer

               

              I think that part of what has you confused is that you are a college XC runner and this is a thread about marathoning. 

               

              A couple of points:

              The midweek long run is not a "long run" in the classic sense--that is, it is not so long that you would need extra recovery time from it. 

               

              Your question: "What makes the long run so much better than constant but elevated running stress?" demonstrates a misunderstanding of the idea of the midweek long run.

               

              First, it is a part of "constant" elevated running stress, not in opposition to it. Second, no one was claiming that this run was "so much better" than another way of training. Putting the issue like this confuses the points that are being made. If a midweek long run is better than equal mileage without that mid-week long run, it is likely marginally better, and for some runners it could turn out to be counter-productive.

               

              The primary point is that in the context of marathon training, the specificity of the midweek long run serves particular purposes that a shorter run would not:

              1) It accustoms the mind and body to sustained efforts of 90 minutes plus.

              2) You begin to brush up against some of the fueling issues that are key to marathon training and racing, especially if the midweek long run is done in the context of higher volume.

               

              I think these two points are part of what "another one" means when he talks about how this run helps you learn about your body and how it will react to the demands of racing a marathon.

                One of my favorite things about running is that I can lace up and hit the street without putting too much thought into it.

                 

                Then I'd think you'd want to stay away from the Pfitzinger/Daniels OCD stuff.

                CyclingAHEAD until 2012



                Cool as a Cucumber

                  I think that part of what has you confused is that you are a college XC runner and this is a thread about marathoning.

                   

                  Do you think the mid-week medium long run would apply to someone training for the 5k/mile, or just shorter distances than the marathon?

                  The pavement fears me.

                    Do you think the mid-week medium long run would apply to someone training for the 5k/mile, or just shorter distances than the marathon?

                     

                    These are difficult questions to answer in a general way because so much depends on the age of the runner, the experience of the runner, the season of training, and so forth. So, I would take this (and any other advice of this sort) not as definitive but as suggestive.

                     

                    During the off-season, the base building season, I think that any committed miler or 5k runner would benefit from one to three 12-16 mile runs per week, depending on background, ability to recover, etc.

                     

                    Of course, you wouldn't really need a long run in the technical, marathon sense. You wouldn't need a 20 miler, for example, unless you were up in the 120-140 mile week range and a very experienced runner who wouldn't need this advice anyhow. So, really technically there would be no need for a "midweek" medium long run. There would just be running, lots of it, and targeting 90 minutes to 2 hours once or twice or three times a week.

                     

                    But of course, one could simply run 6-8 miles twice a day, sometimes easy, sometimes faster, sometimes even faster, for a summer and do quite well off of that. A lot depends on what you like to do, your temperament as a runner, the blocks of time you have to train. How the training matches these elements are more important, to my mind, than the "ideal training" that sits somewhere in a vacuum like a Platonic form.

                     

                    Frequency, variety, consistency, specificity, volume: there are many ways to skin the cat. But you always have to deal with the cat that's right there in front of you.

                      Even if it is Schrodinger's??

                       

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                        Even if it is Schrodinger's??

                         

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                        Especially!


                        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                          Even if it is Schrodinger's??

                           

                          Big grin

                           

                          That one is just tougher to skin. You may need to be comfortable skinning empty air.

                          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                            ... like a Platonic form.

                             

                            Just couldn't resist, could you?

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