1600/3200 Track shape (Read 362 times)

SkylineTrack


    Ran two workouts this week:

     

    6x600 all between 1:51 to 1:53 with a 1:45 slow jog between

    and

    3x1600 5:38 5:37 5:28 with 2:30 walking rest between

     

    Based off of this what do y'all think I could run in a couple weeks at my first outdoor track meet of the year?


    Interval Junkie --Nobby

      Not really enough information, but I'll take a stab: 5:10 for the 1600m

      2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

      Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!

      SkylineTrack


        Alright yeah I can give some more background information.

         

        I'm 5-8 120 and 18 years old. In cross country this year I ran a 16:55  5k off of 25 miles per week, along with a few other mid-low 17's. After the end of the season I ran a 37:33 10k. Over the winter I've averaged a little under 40 a week for the last 10 weeks. I got 7 long runs of 10-11 miles in, the last one at 6:58 pace. A couple of weeks ago I did a 6 mile progression run on a 500 meter grass loop, splits were 6:44, 6:37, 6:35, 6:31, 6:11, 5:55 for an average of about 6:25. Last weekend I ran a road 5k on a pretty snowy day (There was probably about an inch of snow throughout the course) and ran 18:21 for it. Most of my easy runs are between 7-7:30. An my Prs from last track season coming off an injury were 5:06 and 10:45. This week was the first real intervals of the track season and the races are on the 14th.


        Just a dude.

          Not a ton to go off of, but depending on how hard those mile repeats were, I'd say 10:30ish if that was a tough workout, and maybe close to 10:00 if you could have done another one at sub 5:30 without too much trouble.

           

          What I do is go to McMillanRunning.com and guess at the time for your race. So I went there and typed in 10:00 for a 3200. (I had to pick more distances...)

           

          Then I look at the training paces for that race. I see that if 5:30 miles were a tempo effort run, that is pretty close to what he thinks a 10:00 3200 PR would do for cruise intervals. If the 5:30s were all out, I'd compare them to the speed paces. Those should have been closer to 5:20, so I'd guess you weren't quite in 10:00 shape yet,

           

          If I look at your 600s, 1:52 seems pretty close to a 10:00 minute 3200. Your recovery seems perhaps a bit long...

           

          BTW, according to his charts, a 10:00 minute 3200 converts to about a 4:45 1600...

           

          Also judging by what you wrote and the workouts listed, I think you will be stronger at the shorter distances.

           

          So, if I was a betting man, I'd bet you might be able to run in the 4:50s in the 1600 and 10:20s for the 3200...

           

          But, then, I'm just a random guy on the internet. My opinion is worth less than you paid for it... Wink

           

          -Kelly

          Getting back in shape... Just need it to be a skinnier shape... 


          Feeling the growl again

            A ~17min 5K runner should not have issues running a 1600m in the 4:50s.  Whether it is as fast as 4:45 or as slow as 4:59 is going to depend on the characteristics of that athlete.

             

            I ran under 31 for 10K and could never get under 4:36 for the mile.  Conversely I had a friend who ran 31:30 or 31:40 for 10K and he ran 4:19.  Difference in fast-twitch/slow-twitch.

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

              In cross country this year I ran a 16:55  5k off of 25 miles per week, along with a few other mid-low 17's.

               

              If it was an honest course -- and let's be completely honest with ourselves... there are short CC courses and usually the runners know which ones they are -- then your 16:55 should easily get you in the close proximity of 4:50.  Last year my son went from 17:05 fall CC time to 4:46 early in the track season (which he only ran the 1600 one time last spring), and he is really more of a "strength" runner like spaniel rather than a "speed" runner like spaniel's buddy.

              - Joe

              all running goals are under review by the executive committee.

                I saw the title of the thread and thought, "Oval."

                Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  I want to see a track that unfolds from 1600 to 3200.

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                    I want to see a track that unfolds from 1600 to 3200.

                     

                    Dude. It's simple. Just butterfly it like a pork chop.

                    When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                    SkylineTrack


                      Thanks for all the replies! I was guessing I was in about 4:5X and 10:3X shape so I think I'll take a shot at running 4:52 at the first meet and then go for about 10:40 in the 32 doubling or tripling back.

                        Thanks for all the replies! I was guessing I was in about 4:5X and 10:3X shape so I think I'll take a shot at running 4:52 at the first meet and then go for about 10:40 in the 32 doubling or tripling back.

                         

                        My advice is not to worry about your time,or don't limit yourself by a certain time. Run that first 400 somewhat agressively, like everyone does, and then see what you can do from there. Unless you're phenominal at pacing, or stamina, don't think you can go out at 72-73 for the first 400and maintain that pace to get your 4:50ish.  I've seen a handful of 1600m indoor races the past couple weeks and not once did someone come from far behind to win.  Be prepared to run sub 70 for the first 400m (which probably means 31/32 for the fisrst 200m) and then gutting it out.

                         

                        Good luck and let us know you you do!


                        Feeling the growl again

                           

                          My advice is not to worry about your time,or don't limit yourself by a certain time. Run that first 400 somewhat agressively, like everyone does, and then see what you can do from there. Unless you're phenominal at pacing, or stamina, don't think you can go out at 72-73 for the first 400and maintain that pace to get your 4:50ish.  I've seen a handful of 1600m indoor races the past couple weeks and not once did someone come from far behind to win.  Be prepared to run sub 70 for the first 400m (which probably means 31/32 for the fisrst 200m) and then gutting it out.

                           

                          Good luck and let us know you you do!

                           

                          Respectfully, IMHO I think a 4:50 miler going out at 4:04-4:08 pace for the first 1/8th of the race is overly aggressive.  I totally agree you don't want to lose touch with the lead pack, and the 3rd lap is typically the slowest and not the first, but as a 4:53-4:55 runner when I was in HS I can't say I ever went out that fast or saw someone do it who wasn't toast before the bell lap.  Someone lacking stamina won't help themselves by going into oxygen debt so early.  YMMV.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                             

                            Respectfully, IMHO I think a 4:50 miler going out at 4:04-4:08 pace for the first 1/8th of the race is overly aggressive.  I totally agree you don't want to lose touch with the lead pack, and the 3rd lap is typically the slowest and not the first, but as a 4:53-4:55 runner when I was in HS I can't say I ever went out that fast or saw someone do it who wasn't toast before the bell lap.  Someone lacking stamina won't help themselves by going into oxygen debt so early.  YMMV.

                             

                            I very much agree with you, and I had reservations about posting that., But that's not how I see any HS kids race today, in my limited recent viewing. It seems that they are all programmed to go out substantially faster than their average pace, and then just hang on.  (e.g in one race the 4:30 winner went out low 60's, and many guys that finished in the 4:40s were right on his tail).

                             

                            Maybe it's all bad coaching, or this thinking that unless you go out really hard, you can't run a fast time. I know that's the message my son hears every day.

                            SkylineTrack


                              Yeah last track season I usually died pretty bad if I went out fast but in cross I dropped a couple of 5:05-10 first miles and held on alright for close to 17 flat. But winning the race wouldn't be too big of thought right now as there will be a couple of people in 4:30-mid to 4:40 low shape, plus there's the off chance that Elijah Armstrong, the 6th place finisher at Footlocker Nationals, might wind up racing too. I'll probably wind up at the back of the lead pack but still get dragged to a 70-71 and then I'll try to just settle in to running 73's


                              Feeling the growl again

                                 

                                I very much agree with you, and I had reservations about posting that., But that's not how I see any HS kids race today, in my limited recent viewing. It seems that they are all programmed to go out substantially faster than their average pace, and then just hang on.  (e.g in one race the 4:30 winner went out low 60's, and many guys that finished in the 4:40s were right on his tail).

                                 

                                Maybe it's all bad coaching, or this thinking that unless you go out really hard, you can't run a fast time. I know that's the message my son hears every day.

                                 

                                Just because they're doing it doesn't mean it's right.  Big grin  I have not watched a meet in some time but I am sure you are right.

                                 

                                I don't think anything has changed in the couple decades since I was one of them.  I ran 17 flat in XC by running 5:00-5:30-6:30 (last 1.1).  My coach instructed us to run so that we were 30sec slower each mile.  I had a 4:53 mile PR on the track.  There was no internet for me to learn that he was wrong.  If I had run correctly I would have been a good 20sec faster.

                                 

                                Even in college I recall that at every conference meet, two thirds of the pack would take off at a suicidal pace and we'd pass them all later.

                                 

                                I think by nature younger people tear out there and start too fast.  I think they always will.  But the smart ones will hold back enough to power past them towards the end.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand