starting doubles (Read 1513 times)

You didn't say what you do over the weekend but you should incorporate at least one, preferably twice a week, long run during the week. If you're just running 5 miles every time you go out; you should try somewhere around 8~10 on weekend and 7ish during the week. Doubles are great and I would recommend it if you can handle it; but if you don't do a longer continuous run, the problem is; it usually takes 1~2 miles to warm up. So, let's say if you do 3 miles in the morning and it takes you 1.5 miles to really get going; then you'd be spending 3 miles out of your 5 miles for a "real" running. Last weekend, I was on treadmill, trying to get to an hour (a painful hour...!). I was struggling for the first half an hour. I finally started to feel better after about 40 minutes and I was flying in the final 15 miniutes or so. I wouldn't gotten that far if I only run 5 miles. Having said that, on the other hand, I always look at morning run as an exercise. If I jog nice and easily in the morning, I feel much better and sometimes I can go striaght into some sort of quality work (if you could call that "quality" at all! ;o)). This young lady I'm advising via e-mail; she started doing doubles twice a week this winter. Both of those days were easy days. Basically, I had her do a couple of point workouts and, on the recovery days, she did double of 40 minutes or so. Now we got into more exacting workouts and now she's doing hill training twice a week plus long rep on Saturday. She told me last week, she ended up doing 4 double days! She said she noticed she could do those quality days much better if she jogs nice and easily in the morning. I told her to be careful about NOT getting sick of running. Psychological factors DO matter; but if you can handle it; I'd say the more the merrier.

Agree with Nobby. Also, I think you need to be up over 45-50 miles per week to do doubles consistently. My goal for people doing doubles is to get in more miles once you have exhausted once a day runs. One other benefit is if you do a faster workout in afternoon, an easy run in morning seems to make the quality work out more effective probably from more blood volume. You need to focus on running every day before doing doubles any day. Also, as Nobby says, you need a long run and a semi long run. These two runs (and in time, mix a little quality in these runs) and building miles will do a lot to build your endurance and drop your times in all events. Now, if you can only run 5 days per week, you can consider an extra run on a day but this will not be as beneficial as building a long run and a semi long run each week.

I don't have 2 or 3 hour blocks of time outside of the weekend where I can run the extra miles during the week.

Pardon me for saying this...; but from your poster name, I thought you were a hard core kinda guy... When our daughter was born, and because my wife wanted to run too, we traded the time and the only time I had to run was first thing in the morning. I used to go for a run at 4:00AM in the middle of Minnesota winter. That was the only way I could get my 2-hour run in. I don't do it any more though. But I'd do it if I have to. Once a week, I get together with the girl I'm coaching. We get together at 5:00AM for an hour's run before work. I drive up a half an hour to get up to her place (or near-by firness club). We get together to do this to make it a committement to ourselves. She comes to my place twice a week to train with me so, as a trade-off, I go there for this morning run. I usually get up at 4:00, or 4:15 at latest, to get ready. It was a bit testing this past winter when the temperature hit somethnig like -10F a couple of times. One time, it was so damn windy that we ended up running around near-by shopping mall's parking lot to avoid direct wind. It must have been -30F with windchill easily. We did what we had to do to get our run in. I believe long runs are very important. If you can do 10-miler in the morning, it's not that difficult to get up an hour ealier to make it an 18-miler once a week if you think it's important.

Relax. You don't need to feel threatened by me. I don't train nearly as hard as you do now; I'm just an old fart. However, I worked directly with a guy by the name of Arthur Lydiard (I hope you recognize this name) and I did all his familiar schedule that calles for 15 miles on Tuesday and 18 miles on Thursday with 22 on Sunday that added up to 100 miles a week. I did doubles too and I still do. And I beleive there ARE some benefits that doubles would offer but if you think doing doubles is better than doing 18-miler or 18-mile run during the week is for ultra runners, I would beg to differ. I served as a professional corporate team coach in Japan with 8 nationally ranked female athletes ranging from 800 up to marathon and I "agented" Reiko Tosa who just officially got picked for Beijing Olympic marathon team. I'm not necessarily accused you of being soft. But for your poster name (Run to Win) and your excellent PR, or target, of 2:30 marathon, you seem to be more concerned with your wife than training; that's all. If you want to know more about me, visit www.lydiardfoundation.org. I and my partner, Lorraine Moller, who won the bronze medal in 1992 Olympic marathon, manage that site.

Oh, gosh, no! Not at all! Let me tell you a story. Arthur died during the lecture tour that I organized. The last time I got together with Arthur in New York (NYC marathon), I was showing him pictures of my family. One of the last things he said to me (literally) was "Take care of your family..." He told me earlier that he wished he never started running because running destroyed his first family. He passed away in Houston on Saturday night. Naturally, it was quite chaotic. I had to call his runners and family late at night; I was up till 3AM taking care of things... Next day, my daughter had a basketball tournament. My wife told me to stay home. I was thinking about what he said and I felt I needed to go (almost had an accident a few times though!). No, I would not put running above family at all. In fact, that--at least I thought I tried to imply--was my point earlier that, when my daughter was born, we had to take care of her and my wife wanted to run as well and she wasn't a morning person. So I shifted my schedule completely and picked the morning to run. I didn't like it; but I had to. You always expect some adversity--there's ALWAYS things that come to interfer so you can NEVER do things the way you exactly want it. That's a given. You need to accept it and move and do the best you can. That's why I got up at 4AM and did those long runs; sometimes I did hill repeats in the snow and ice in the complete darkness. I didn't like it; but I had to do what I could. Now, that being said, if there's an athlete who has come to me to train and tells me, "Well, my wife doesn't want me to get up early to have my 15-miler in so I won't," then I would seriously question his committment. That is, in my dictionary, not life's adversity. I'm talking about a serious athlete, not an everyday jogger. Actually, in fact, I've seen "a just jogger" who's a lot more committed than that though. I know of a few neighbour's housewives who would get up 4:30 to get together and go for a long run so they could be home when their kids go take a bus. The girl I'm coaching has a full-time job and she has a boyfriend and she works for a non-profit organization some weekend. She takes a bus from work to the shopping mall bus stop then drive down to my place--twice a week and we do the long run on the weekend. We also do the morning run once sometimes twice during the week at 5. She sometimes goes out with her boyfriend; she goes to Chicago to see her family; or works for the NPO, etc. We always shift things around and try to squeeze point workouts. It's not even her family; yet, those things are important to her and her "life" has GOT to come before training. I always tell her that she must be a total "person" before she's an athlete. But we also know what we've got to do. We just have to accommodate around those "other activities". But, once again, I personally feel one or two long (enough) runs during the week can be very benefitial and I would not compromise them just because your "wife wants to spend extra 30 minutes with you". I'd say, fiine, spend 30 minutes extra with your wife; make her happy; then get out and run 30 minutes longer! Yes, I've done that before! ;o) In fact, I hope he was saying what he said just to "be cute". Also a side note, this might be a Japanese thing, I don't know, but being with your wife all the time does not necessarily mean you love your wife more.

I do doubles typically M-Th. Friday off, Sat long run, Sun recovery run. Look at my log. My first run is at 5:30 am for an hour, and then I run for another 30 minutes in the evening after work. I usually don't plan workouts in advance other than long runs. I run as fast as my legs feel like running. If they feel heavy I take it slow, but if they feel light I run faster. I try not to do more than 2 hard-type runs in a row. If it's a race week, then the schedule changes depending on distance of the race and what day it falls on. If you are considering doing doubles, make sure you eat proper recovery nutrition after your first run and that you eat clean all day between runs or the evening run will suffer. Just allow yourself the flexibility to skip the second run of the day if you feel tired or need a break. Doing doubles is a great way to get injured if you ignore your body's signals. But on the other hand, it's a great way to improving your running if you're smart about it. Just listen to your body.

Ooooo... Nobby has shared his wisdom with us....we should be grateful. Big friggin deal, I don't care how much knowledge he possesses. He's arrogant, condescending, and egotistical.