|
| long and slow = fat? (Read 1000 times) |
| view log World's Largest Penny |
posted: 9/11/2008 at 10:32 PM
modified: 9/11/2008 at 10:32 PM |
Here's an email "quote" from a training expert in my area:
<start his quote>
Long slow distance cardio (which is how Ironman usually train)
teaches the body to store fat. There are a few hypothesized
reasons for that.
1. The body knows that large amounts of energy is being expended
and the body slows itself down to preserve the fat storage in case
it needs it later.
2. Excess slow cardio greatly increases your appetite.
3. Long slow cardio increases the hormone cortisol, which breaks
down muscle and leads to fat storage.
<end>
I've been running for a over a year. And, haven't lost any weight.
But I certainly didn't think it was leading to fat storage!
</end></start> |
|
|
|
posted: 9/11/2008 at 10:34 PM |
Sure, that's why the Ethiopian and Kenyan mid-distance runners all get fat on their long-distance training regimens...
|
| RA calculator |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/11/2008 at 10:45 PM |
| Is he an expert because he has a degree in microbiology or something related, or is he just an expert because he works at a gym? I don't claim to be an expert, but in my experience this is not true. I usually have to diet to lose weight. However, when I am running the weight stays off. When I stop running and continue to eat the same amount I put on 40 lbs within a few months. |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/11/2008 at 10:57 PM |
<sarcasm>
Maybe that's why all the elite ultrarunners around here are so fat?
</sarcasm>
Yeah, I don't buy it either... |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/11/2008 at 11:28 PM |
| Typical marketing bullshiat from a trainer trying to get people in a gym, where they have to pay for the privileged of lifting heavy objects. By contrast, the sidewalks are free. Caveat emptor. |
| How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2. |
|
|
Guy running in pink |
posted: 9/11/2008 at 11:33 PM |
Oh, just write 'bullshit'.
We know what you meant anyway.
Penny: it is common NOT to lose weight when you pack on the miles. They body needs fuel. You mentioned "But I certainly didn't think it was leading to fat storage!"... so the big question is... has it? Has your %body fat spiked up?
Two of those three things sound like hokum. The middle one #2 may be true. Sort of. Depending on how "excess" and "greatly" are defined. And I'm sure it isn't limited to 'slow cardio'. Me thinks doing lots of fast cardio will ALSO increase appetite.
|
| With realistic Pants-on-Fire action! |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/11/2008 at 11:35 PM |
Long and slow and takes in more calories than expended = fat
Long and slow and takes in fewer calories than expended = thin
Long and slow and takes in same amount of calories as expended = same
Short and fast and takes in more calories than expended = fat
Short and fast and takes in fewer calories than expended = thin
Short and fast and takes in same amount of calories as expended = same
You get the idea |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/12/2008 at 1:05 AM |
| Quote from srlopez on 9/11/2008 at 11:33 PM: We know what you meant anyway.
Since I curse on many internet forums, I subconsciously use a misspelling to avoid language filters. I won't do it again. Prick.
 |
| How To Run a Marathon: Step 1 - start running. There is no Step 2. |
|
|
|
posted: 9/12/2008 at 1:31 AM
modified: 9/12/2008 at 11:25 AM |
This reminds me of a conversation I had with Arthur Lydiard. I was criticizing this high school coach in the US who had his kids go through carbo loading before their mile race--yes, this pretty much meant every week! He looked at me and, matter-of-factly, said; "Well, technically, anaerobic exercise is 19 times LESS economical than aerobic exercise; and this means you will be using up more carbohydrate doing anaerobic exercise like running a mile..." So does that mean it's a good idea to do carbo-loading for the mile race? Well, our conversation didn't end there...
The point is; I think, in a way, what this guy is saying is somewhat true. Your body will adapt to whatever the stress you give it to. By doing long slow exercising, your are predominantly using fat metabolism. In fact, if you're exercising less than 70% of your aerobic capacity (or thereabouts), you are predomnantly using fat as an energy source. So the more you use up your fat, the more your body would try to compensate to store fat--it's a survival mechanism. I don't know if there has been any research done on this sugject but I would not be surprised at all that, by doing long slow running, your body's actually adapting to "store more fat". Of course, a problem with most of the research is; they have to isolate ONE element. The variable is always single subject. But in real life, things intermingle and work together. You can NOT isolate one thing in real life. I used to work for the largest herbal medicine company in the world. Science has always tried to isolate one herb and its chemical composition to come up with "artificial" herb but never succeeded. This is because there's no such thing as "pure" herb. There are always some trace elements that work together to enhance others. Has anybody actually tried to taste sea salt? It's not quite 100% NaCl. The "regular" salt is actually 99% NaCl with 1% trace mineral added. But real sea salt is 81% NaCl and it tastes nothing like "regular" table salt. Same thing with training. So you go for a long run. Some may call it aerobic running. But it's not only your aerobic capacity being trained; there are a lot more in it. Some lab-rat would like to argue aerobic development is not the single most important element in development distance running performance... Well, the thing is; it's not just aerobic development that's being stimulated during a 2:30 run.
Going back to the original post, so by going long and slow (and this, to me, is once again an argument of "doing less mileage faster is better than going long and slow..."), your fat metabolism is being stimulate and you store more fat... It may be true; but the problem here is that you'll be also burning hell of a lot more calories by going the distance. Remember some 20 years ago or so; some desk smart guy said that, by exercising and elevating your heart rate, you'll be using up your life-time heart beats; we all have only so many heart beats in life time. So some smart a$$ runner did the counter calculation; because your resting heart rate actually slows down by exercising and getting fit; the rest of the day, besides, say, an hour and half of exercising time, your heart rate is actually less... So he came up with the number that, exercising individual actually lives longer than non-exercising person. This seems to be the same kind of argument.
Chances are; this individual probably does have some sort of knowledge and he/she just wanted to show off his sophisticated argument to make him/her look impressive. And/or he/she is another one of those run-less (and faster)-to-run-better advocate and trying to diss long distance work. Like many others seem to point out; in real life, this can not be seen (Africans, ultra runners, etc.). Kinda funny though. |
|
|
|
posted: 9/12/2008 at 1:32 AM |
Quote from Berner on 9/12/2008 at 1:05 AM:Since I curse on many internet forums, I subconsciously use a misspelling to avoid language filters. I won't do it again. Prick.
Hey, hey... Watch it, though. This is not letsrun.ciom message board! ;o) |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/12/2008 at 2:56 AM |
| Quote from AmoresPerros on 9/11/2008 at 10:34 PM: Sure, that's why the Ethiopian and Kenyan mid-distance runners all get fat on their long-distance training regimens...
Hey, that must be the reason  .
van Aaken ("Run slowly, run daily,... don't eat like a pig") trained runners on "slow distance", and does anybody think Harald Norpoth was "fat"?
|
|
|
|
posted: 9/12/2008 at 3:57 AM |
Quote from slowgino on 9/12/2008 at 2:56 AM:Hey, that must be the reason . van Aaken ("Run slowly, run daily,... don't eat like a pig") trained runners on "slow distance", and does anybody think Harald Norpoth was "fat"?
Slowgino:
Good one! Running Skelton! ;o) |
|
|
|
posted: 9/12/2008 at 4:59 AM
modified: 9/16/2008 at 3:57 AM |
Long slow distance cardio (which is how Ironman usually train) teaches the body to store fat. There are a few hypothesized reasons for that.
I heard about this issue from someone doing Ironman. Her runs are about 15 miles a week which is relatively low and I've never experienced this myself. My theory is that if you don't eat the nutrient that you need then your body starts going into hunger or starvation mode thereby increasing weight or bodyfat. According to her she started losing weight when she ate more. Again it's never happened to me so I am guessing as to what happened.
1. The body knows that large amounts of energy is being expended and the body slows itself down to preserve the fat storage in case it needs it later.
Long slow distance (low hr) activities are better for losing body fat than high hr activities such as sprinting in my experience.
2. Excess slow cardio greatly increases your appetite.
Appetite can increase if lacking nutrients such as salt or protein. The solution is to eat as healthy as possible and eliminate empty calories rather than decreasing calories in general or controlling appetite. This is what works for me.
3. Long slow cardio increases the hormone cortisol, which breaks down muscle and leads to fat storage.
This can happen from overtraining. There are healthy ways to resolve it and keep running.
I've been running for a over a year. And, haven't lost any weight. But I certainly didn't think it was leading to fat storage!
Do you know your caloric intake and metabolism? Are you under more stress than usual?
Good luck.
MTA: This is not advocating HR training.
|
| Misquotations are the only quotations that are never misquoted. - H. P. |
|
|
| view log |
posted: 9/12/2008 at 7:19 AM |
| Quote from Nobby415 on 9/12/2008 at 1:31 AM: This reminds me of a conversation I had with Arthur Lydiard.
Nobby, once again a great answer. Your first sentence reminds me of why we should listen to you!  |
| 24hrs 100miles £10,000 |
|
|
| view log Running Partner |
posted: 9/12/2008 at 12:44 PM |
Troll alert - I thought is was Long - STEADY - distance (not slow as this is a relative function) - Troll alert cancelled.
I can't add much to the science but I have been doing the low heart rate training program recommended by Maffetone and several former Ironman winners and to date have lost about 20 lbs or slightly more than 10%since January (190 - 170). The weight came off slow and sometimes not noticeable but its apparent now. My main reasons were for prevention of injury more than anything else (the HRM keeps me running easy). Also, my speed has also reduced. I eat a normal diet for parents of 3 under 10. So there is a statistical sample of one to add to the conversation.
That being said - your local training expert is off base and under informed. If the expert argues that the Kenyans run incredible miles not repeatable by us typical runners - you can point to normal people doing this on 40 - 50 mpw with good success. |
Illegitimis non carborundum
2008 goals:
1) run a fall marathon (Indy)
2) stay injury free
3) PR 5K, 10K, HM & M
4) get my kids to start running with me
|
|
|
|
