Forums >General Running>long run by time or pace/distance?
I'm training.g for my first full marathon with a solid base. Due to time limitations I've opted for a High intensity/ lower mileage plan of 3-4 days a week of run in plus cross training. I'm hitting all of my speedwork and tempo times with ease, well not ease, it hurts but I'm beating the stated Times. My long run is another story. The program has my long run at a 9:40 pace, just 40 seconds slower than my goal race pace. I'm ok running 10:00mm for even my longest run to date(14), but I'm only able to hit 9:40s for 10 miles or so.
an amazing likeness
Read the 2nd page of this RA thread...Long Runs In Perspective, especially the post from Jeff:
Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.
Sounds too fast to me. Daniels' would have me running 8:46 marathon pace (if I were in marathon shape) and easy/long runs at 10:10 or so. I also like the 2-3 min/mile slower than 5k pace rule of thumb. All kinds of ways to figure it (go by feel! does it feel easy?) In any case, it's going to be rough training for a marathon on 3 to 4 days per week, in my opinion. That's all I got.
You're only running 3-4 days per week and having trouble coming within 40 seconds per mile of your goal marathon pace for anything longer than 10 miles? And you're wondering whether this bodes bad news for your marathon goal?
In general more miles is better than less miles so running longer on your long run is in theory a good thing. But if you're following a low mileage / high intensity plan and you're not able to hit the paces on the single most important run of the week then it seems the plan is not working for you. And doing longer runs than your weekly mileage can support will only take you so far.
Also, is there a second question or is that just a stray #1?
Runners run
Feeling the growl again
To be very honest, what you are doing is not marathon training. You can't run 3ish runs per week then go out and try to run 14+ at an aggressive pace, you just aren't building the foundation to do that. FIRST (I'm assuming that is the plan you are on) may let you fake your way through a 5K/10K but not a marathon. We can't see your training log but what you are describing just isn't going to prepare you for a marathon. Will you finish it? Sure, you might, but what you are doing should not be confused with really training to prepare for the event.
If time is what is limiting you to such a plan....hey, we all have to make our choices so I'm not questioning that....how do you have time to cross train on the other days? Running is a pretty simple sport. If you have time to cross train I'm curious why you couldn't use that time to lace up and run. I should do more cross-training but I'm also time-challenged so I spend every minute I can working out running.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
I can't run more than 3-4 days a week as my wife is training for the same race and someone has to be home with our child so we can't run on the same days due to work. I cross train as I have time to lift after her morning run and before my work, but not time to run. I can paddle after work but it's too hot/I'm bushed to run. Being on the water is different. I'm not a pure runner but I have a solid base, as I stated, so running long isn't an issue, just the fast pace of a low mileage program. I don't want to be a string bean running geek; I want overall fitness. My current goal is a marathon. If it sounds like I'm being condescending, I am. Spaniel just told me that if I'm too full to eat my green beans then I'm too full for ice cream.. Being able to run a sub 3 hr marathon but not be able to do 3 pull ups is not fit.
I have a life, a wife and child. These are my priorities. Running is a distant 4th. I stated my limitations. If you can't be helpful then just say nothing.
Now that I have stated the truth, flame on, haters hate the truth. This forum could use some life, so hate on.
I can't run more than 3-4 days a week as my wife is training for the same race and someone has to be home with our child so we can't run on the same days due to work. I cross train as I have time to lift after her morning run and before my work, but not time to run. I can paddle after work but it's too hot/I'm bushed to run. Being on the water is different. I'm not a pure runner but I have a solid base, as I stated, so running long isn't an issue, just the fast pace of a low mileage program. I don't want to be a string bean running geek; I want overall fitness. My current goal is a marathon. If it sounds like I'm being condescending, I am. Spaniel just told me that if I'm too full to eat my green beans then I'm too full for ice cream.. Being able to run a sub 3 hr marathon but not be able to do 3 pull ups is not fit. I have a life, a wife and child. These are my priorities. Running is a distant 4th. I stated my limitations. If you can't be helpful then just say nothing. Now that I have stated the truth, flame on, haters hate the truth. This forum could use some life, so hate on.
I have a wife and THREE children. And a personality to boot.
FWIW there was a time I could run a 2:29 marathon, bench around 230, and never maxed out on pullups because I got bored around 30. So what is your excuse for sucking so badly?
I've got news for you -- 20 minutes of flexing in the mirror after 90 seconds of lifting does not give you a good base for marathon running. If you are too insecure to take a little honest advice from those that have been there and done it, by people taking their time to give it to you in an effort to help you, then I suggest you go back to your CrossFit forum for marathon advice.
If I sound like I'm being condescending it's because I am.
Drama queen much? You say you're speaking the truth but yet the simple, obvious truth is that your training is not aligned to your stated goal. So you can either adjust your training, adjust your goal, or be disspointed.
I have a wife and THREE children. And a personality to boot. So what is your excuse for sucking so badly?
So what is your excuse for sucking so badly?
+1 (well, minus the personality part)
It's not rocket science. You seem like you're on a solid track to hit the half in 2:10 and walk it in from there.
Oh and being able to do 100 pull ups and run walk a sub 6 isn't being "fit" either.
And fitness isn't a sport.
Running is a sport.
Trail and Ultra Running User Group
#RunEveryDay
Two questions:
1. How many miles a week are you running and how long are your long runs?
2. define solid base. What have you been averaging for mileage?
Half Fanatic #9292.
Game Admin for RA Running Game 2023.
After just missing 2 hrs for the half last year due to a cramp,I decided to go for the full and prepare properly. That's 6 months of 70% max heart rate training, gettin in the miles to prepare for a 16 week program. I do the gym twice a week and paddle as much as possible, which is only once or twice a week of late. So yes, I have a solid running base on which to build.
I can only run 3-4 Times a week, this is my parameter. Thank you to those actually trying to help while staying within this boundary.
maybe if you don't try to win your shorter workouts by running them faster than your plan calls for, you could run the long run at the pace prescribed?
Not sure when your marathon is, if it's within the next 3 months, not being able to hold a 9:40 pace for 10 miles suggests a 2:00 half marathon, finishing the marathon around 4:20. A 4:00 marathon goal is pretty aggressive (based on the 9:00 pace goal, 4:00 marathon is 9:09 pace)
MoBramExam
Being able to run a sub 3 hr marathon but not be able to do 3 pull ups is not fit.
Does such an animal exist in the real world?
If it does, I've never seen one.
FWIW, so you don't think I'm just a "string bean running geek" or whatever, I cross train (weights of about an hour) three times a week and usually run seven times a week. I also rock climb (which I don't log), swim (which I usually forget to log), and some other cross training now and then. If I split up my miles the way you are doing, OP, I would not be able to maintain for long.
For me, if I do weights on the days I'm supposed to be recovering from hard runs, I have to be really, really careful not to start breaking down. I say this not knowing what your routines look like, since your log is not public.
Honestly, if you're not going to run more (running when it's hot out and you're bushed after work is awesome training, though), I would make the tempo/intervals easier (think of the goal pace as the fastest you are allowed to run, instead) to let yourself have a shot at hitting your goal on the long runs. Further, on the long runs, I would start intentionally slow--as slow as needed so as not to have to slow down further during the run itself.
From what I understand of FIRST, it really only works well if your cross train aerobically on the non-run days (e.g., swimming and cycling). Weights for strength is great (as I obviously use them and think so), and they are good for practice running on tired legs (I'm training for a 12 hour race at the moment), but they do little to improve your aerobic fitness. Paddling is good aerobic work, but once a week isn't the same as what a triathlete does--which is really what FIRST has in mind.
Finally, you might get more, constructive responses if you don't respond to people with such venom. We all have lives, other hobbies, jobs, and families. We run what we run because we want to. Demeaning the forum and claiming runners are not fit reeks of insecurity and bile. While I do not know that to be the case, it is the impression people get when they are insulted. Take that for what it's worth.
"When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." Emil Zatopek
After just missing 2 hrs for the half last year due to a cramp,I decided to go for the full and prepare properly. That's 6 months of 70% max heart rate training, gettin in the miles to prepare for a 16 week program. I do the gym twice a week and paddle as much as possible, which is only once or twice a week of late. So yes, I have a solid running base on which to build. I can only run 3-4 Times a week, this is my parameter. Thank you to those actually trying to help while staying within this boundary.
You keep saying that, but you don't say how many miles per week you're getting in. Why not?
How many miles are you getting in and how strong is your "base"?
It's all relevant if you want the best advice possible.