Forums  > Racing  > Trying to BQ in 2008 and could use some advice

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Trying to BQ in 2008 and could use some advice (Read 433 times)

trishierunner view log esq. posted: 11/13/2007 at 11:37 PM modified: 11/13/2007 at 11:39 PM Some background: I ran my first marathon (Baltimore) in 4:43:something. I ran my second (Marine Corps) in 4:02:10. I ran my third (Richmond( in 3:53:13. I REALLY (really really) want to BQ next year. The question is: what is the best way for me to do it? Alan (hi!) suggested running a marathon in the late winter/ spring and get down to the mid to high 3:40s -- so I would only have to take off 5-9 minutes to BQ in the fall. This is also appealing because I'm feeling the need to train (I know I need to recover first). There are a couple marathon a couple of hours away from me: Potomac River Run Marathon (May 4, very hilly) and Lower Potomac River Marathon (March 9, some hills) ... both look pretty good. Thoughts? I'm thinking of training to run a 3:45-3:50 for one of those ^^ and then run a flat, fast course in the fall and attempt to BQ. Is March 9 too soon? Thanks! 2009: BQ?

zoom-zoom view log Registered for #2 posted: 11/13/2007 at 11:41 PM Quote from trishierunner on 11/13/2007 at 11:37 PM: and then run a flat, fast course in the fall and attempt to BQ. Grand Rapids would be a great BQer...flat, fast, and there are some hella cool people running it (or at least planning to) in '08! k Kirsten '07: 1324.5 mi '08: 1561 mi ... • Ladies Locker Room • .: 2009 Goals :. • Run 1750 miles • 2 marathons (May - Bayshore, Fall - ?) • PRs: 5k ~ 15k ~ 25k? ~ HM ~ 26.2 • 1st trail relay (North Country)

Lifesabeach view log posted: 11/14/2007 at 12:20 AM yanno...CA is beautiful on Feb 3, 2008 and the Surf City USA marathon is a flat, fast course.

Run To Win view log Blaine Moore posted: 11/14/2007 at 12:31 AM Looking at your log, then I would say that you could run a BQ in the spring if you manage to get similar mileage as you have been doing but mix in more interval training than you have been doing. You have a great base going. As for specific marathons, I think that you could be ready for either a march or a May race. It all depends on how likely you are to get outside; I imagine the winter is a little easier in your area than it is up here, so if you can get yourself out the door then you'll be good. I wouldn't try doing a March 9 marathon on all treadmill training, so if that is what you are going to do then I'd opt for the later race. Either way, I'd take it easy at least through the end of the month and do some cross training if you can. For myself (as a comparison) I am planning on building some base miles in December after taking November off from running (but working out in the pool and in the gym pretty hard for the next few weeks) and then hitting the indoor track at least once a week starting towards the end of December or beginning of January. My first race of the season is the 10 mile Mid-Winter Classic which is usually the first weekend in February, and I might see if I can get in shape for a Feb indoor track meet. The marathon I'm aiming at is going to be the ING Georgia marathon on March 30, since it has an RRCA coaching certification course in the days leading up to it that I am planning on attending. No idea if that helps at all or not. By the way, I am going to be releasing my marathon program in January - you should join. My aim right now is going to be to release it on my birthday (the 15th). Run to Win I just started using Twitter - anybody else on there? http://twitter.com/RunToWin

PerfesserR view log Jazz, happy dog posted: 11/14/2007 at 1:02 AM Trish, Looks like your trend is good. Alan's advice is good, a spring marathon would be good experience, then pick a fast fall marathon for BQ. Run the spring marathon not so much for time as a way to see how your training program works. Try out hydration and gel/sportsdrink strategies to see how they work for you. Find some good races in the fall leading up to your BQ race, say, a 10k, then a 15k/10mile, then a HM, and run them just a bit faster (15-20 seconds/mile) than your BQ pace, to gauge your fitness and give you confidence. Remember, these are TRAINING runs, not races, as far as you are concerned. Also, it looks like your last LONG run was 5 weeks before the race. That's a long time, and you can lose some endurance in that time. Your last long run should probably be more like 3 weeks prior. A single 12-miler was better than nothing but probably not enough. I haven't BQed either, so take my advice FWIW. See you in the "Road to Boston" forum! No, I don't want the damned combo special. Now quit asking me that.

rgreen45 view log My Little Pal posted: 11/14/2007 at 1:30 AM modified: 11/14/2007 at 1:34 AM Tricia, First off, Blaines advice is solid IMHO. Secondly, I too studied your log and you have a great base built. You need to integrate a speed session into your weekly training, even if it's on the mill. I've ran 2 BQ's this year and my foundation speed session has been 800m intervals with an 800m recovery. I race occasionally at distances up to 13.1. My "bragging" post in the Look What I Can Do thread has all my races. Our mileages are similar, as I'm just at 1611 YTD. 23 miles has been my longest long run so far in 2007 but only one of those. 20-21 is my usual number. Below are some stats gleaned from my other training log. For both marathons, I only trained 4 days a week and added a 5th day for the last 5 weeks before the taper. 37% of my mileage is easy runs 30.7% is long runs 21.9% is hard runs 10.4% is races 6.3% of my mileage is runs of 0-5 miles 52.1% is runs of 6-10 miles 13.2% is runs of 11-15 miles 11.9% is runs of 16-20 miles 13.3% is runs of 21/25 miles 3.3% is runs of 25+ miles The "hard run" mileage is deceptive as often I'll do a 10-12 mile workout but only 10x800m will really be "hard" but the program counts the whole workout mileage as hard. Bottom line is I agree that by April/May, you could be easily in BQ shape. Sometimes it doesn't matter where the train is going, just that you get on. Masters Group

alan f view log posted: 11/14/2007 at 1:56 AM modified: 11/14/2007 at 2:07 AM Hi Tricia- Hope the recovery is going well. I got out for a 3 mile run today. Just for thought: the reason I suggested the plan as I did while we were running was because of the day light hours that you have to run durng the winter and the amount of tread mill running you would have to do (we both feel the same way about that ). You can train and knock out a spring race and then build on that for a fall race. There are a lot of good fast races out there in the spring and fall so you have many to choose from. Just go with your gut feeling and push on!! http://distance-runner.blogspot.com

trishierunner view log esq. posted: 11/14/2007 at 1:57 AM Thanks everyone for the great advice. I'm not trying to BQ in the Spring ... I feel like 13 minutes is a lot of time to drop at once, so I'd like to run a 3:45ish in the Spring and then run a 3:40 in the fall. I know I need to get in more speedwork --- and it probably will be on the mill. I'm feeling ready to do this --- suggestions on a good program? I've heard good things abou Pfitz (?). Also --- how soon is too soon to start training after racing Richmond last weekend? You guys are a wealth of information, thank you ! 2009: BQ?

mikeymike view log posted: 11/14/2007 at 2:12 AM I don't think you need to run a spring marathon unless you want to. If it were me I'd probably take some time to recover, then focus on base all winter--building up to slightly higher than you've been in the past for all of Jan-Feb, add some tempos and long intervals in March and run a bunch of races in the 5k to half marathon range in April and May. Then after your spring racing season take a few weeks to recover (low mileage easy running) and start building up again all summer. Run mileage in July and August and start to add big marathon workouts/races in September and go for it at an October marathon. I would try to include some long races in your marathon buidlup; 2 or 3 races in the 13.1 to 20 mile range if you can fit them in. You really don't need much pure speed work to run a BQ marathon.

rgreen45 view log My Little Pal posted: 11/14/2007 at 2:51 AM Quote from trishierunner on 11/14/2007 at 1:57 AM: Also --- how soon is too soon to start training after racing Richmond last weekend? You guys are a wealth of information, thank you ! I go low & slow for a couple weeks after a marathon. do maybe 3-4 runs a week of 4-6 miles. Tricia, I think you could easily shave enough for a BQ if you target a late April or May race. Relax and run easy for 2-3 weeks then use a Pfitz 18 week program if you like Pfitz. Sometimes it doesn't matter where the train is going, just that you get on. Masters Group

tuf_aint_enough view log posted: 11/20/2007 at 4:46 PM Don't mean to post-jack, but here goes anyways - There's some really good advice here. Once upon a time there was a coaching forum. Is there still? I think it would be awesome if there were a place to post questions like these and get constant feedback from some of the folks that have 'been there' and 'done that' as part of an ongoing discussion instead of just one-offs. I get tremendous benefit from reading these posts. BTW - great job at Richmond, Trishie. Been away for a week (Mexico) and just getting caught up on these boards.

Bonkin view log Reboot posted: 11/20/2007 at 8:36 PM Good point, Tuf. The RA coaching forum is still alive and well. You can find it here. Your monkey gives me the creeps. - andahuff

rroush view log posted: 11/21/2007 at 4:36 AM Hi Trishie, Looks like you and I are of similar weight and close to the same height. You were more consistent in your miles this year than I was but our August through October mileage is similar. I'm also trying to BQ and my fastest marathon time was 4:09 in June 2006. I've changed things up a bit this marathon season and am hoping it makes a difference but I won't know until my race on Dec. 2nd. I've been following a modified version of a plan I got from the Road to Boston blog, which is based on Pfitzinger's plans. I've added in a weekly tempo run to my plan, more long runs, and less taper time. I'm hoping these things help make a difference. In the meantime, I like your posts because I get a lot of value out of them and the responses you get too!

rroush view log posted: 11/21/2007 at 4:39 AM Oh I also meant to add that I signed up for a 50 miler on March 1st. When I started training for full marathons it made the half marathon distance seem so much easier and I was able to actually race them a lot better. I keep getting PRs in this distance. I figured I will get a lot more experience in running long distances by training for a 50 miler that inevitably it will make the marathon distance seem more manageable. This may seem a little weird, but hopefully it works for me!

Scout7 view log CPT Curmudgeon posted: 11/21/2007 at 12:54 PM Trishie, If you want to BQ in fall, there's Lehigh, Steamtown, Baltimore, Philly... Any of those would be good options for courses. As to the specific training, I'm more in the camp with mikey. Your mileage is going to really get you there. Speed work is something that you should do maybe 10-12 weeks out from the race, and for about 8-10 weeks. Everything else should be easier paced runs, hills, and maintenance type stuff (form drills, striders, etc.). Amat victoria curam. Sine labore nihil. Dulcius ex asperis.

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Forums  > Racing  > Trying to BQ in 2008 and could use some advice