RunningAHEAD - Topic: The Pose

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The Pose (Read 1271 times)

hillrunnertx

posted: 2/27/2008 at 3:52 PM

I started using the "Pose" about two years ago when I was looking for an approach that is more injury-free than the legacy heel-toe form that thick-soled shoes demand. So far, the issues that plagued me for years have been minimal and I've learned to work around the affect of bad Pose form & Achilles tendon issues.

Anyone else tried out the Pose? Your thoughts?

BTW, there are two other similar techniques...Chi Running and Jack Nirenstein's approach, both quite helpful as well.

chrimbler view log	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:13 PM
	Pose is a cult....just RUN!!
	Run like you stole it!

JakeKnight view log	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:15 PM
	Oh, boy. Here we go.
	E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com -----------------------------

Scout7 view log CPT Curmudgeon	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:16 PM
	www.ChiaRunning.com
	Amat victoria curam. Sine labore nihil. Dulcius ex asperis.

CarmelRunner view log Running with trails	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:22 PM
	Hill Runner, I also apply Pose and have been at it since Sept. My results are very promising as I run without causing myself injuries (just recently I ran a Saturday 9 miler at a 7:48 pace which I haven't done in years but I'm not ready to attribute all of this solely to Pose). I fought achilles problems for several years which are now gone. I will say this much about Pose, it works for me but it was hard to re-learn from my old ways, takes practice and patience. I actually had to video tape myself to connect my perception to my physical performance. Not everyone is willing to go to those lengths, but I was tired of being hurt and needed a new method. And as Einstein says "Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.". I also read Pirie and he has similar thoughts so it seemed logical to try. I've read the Chi book, but from a mechanical perspective I couldn't connect the dots. I do like the posture discussions which seem to mirror Pose and many others. I've not read nirenstein and if you could would like to hear your thoughts. One thing of note, I run exclusively in flats now and believe this to be a great help to me. It took some time to transition but it seems well worth it. Also, get ready for some fireworks as it seems that this topic will get some real heated discussions (at least based on other site forums).
	"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Illegitimis non carborundum" - Gen. Joseph Stilwell

Scout7 view log CPT Curmudgeon	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:26 PM
	Run lots. Run mostly easy, hard only when you're ready. Build your miles slowly, so as to avoid injury. That about the gist of it?
	Amat victoria curam. Sine labore nihil. Dulcius ex asperis.

milehighrunner	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:32 PM
	I don't think there is anything unique about the POSE method. It is just the same good running technique that is taught by nearly all coaches. I think it is just a different way to present it or teach it.

MissPratt

Mill Cities Relay

posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:35 PM

Quote from hillrunnertx on 2/27/2008 at 3:52 PM:

What? Is that when you smile or make sure to reapply lip gloss before you come up to the race photographers? If so, I already do that.

Scout7 view log CPT Curmudgeon	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:36 PM
	Quote from MissPratt on 2/27/2008 at 4:35 PM: What? Is that when you smile or make sure to reapply lip gloss before you come up to the race photographers? If so, I already do that. snerk
	Amat victoria curam. Sine labore nihil. Dulcius ex asperis.

Marcus L S Monkey Scratch	posted: 2/27/2008 at 4:51 PM
	Uh...What is POSE? I am not up with all the new training plans, etc. I just run, hard if my legs feel good, easy if they feel heavy. Pretty simple.
	all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads.

MissPratt Mill Cities Relay	posted: 2/27/2008 at 5:10 PM
	Quote from Marcus L S on 2/27/2008 at 4:51 PM: Uh...What is POSE? I am not up with all the new training plans, etc. I just run, hard if my legs feel good, easy if they feel heavy. Pretty simple. So sensible. Keep it simple, as it should be.

HOSS1961 view log	posted: 2/27/2008 at 5:11 PM
	Quote from Marcus L S on 2/27/2008 at 4:51 PM: Uh...What is POSE? I am not up with all the new training plans, etc. I just run, hard if my legs feel good, easy if they feel heavy. Pretty simple. I'm in the same boat. Pose??? Does that make you a poser???
	HOSS 2008 Goals 2 marathons w/1 less than 3:45:00 2 HMw/1 less than 1:41:00 10k less than 46:00 - achieved 45:41 5k less than 22:00

Jim2

posted: 2/27/2008 at 8:15 PM

Two sports scientists, Dr. Ross Tucker (who is an associate of Dr. Tim Noakes at Cape Town University) and Dr. Jonathon Dugan, have studied the Pose method of running extensively. Dr. Tucker is a qualified Pose coach and was the seventh person in the world to be accredited to teach the technique. They posted a 6-part series of articles on the subject on their blog, The Science of Sport, which can be found at http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/. They subsequently posted a concluding article ( http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/10/pose-running-reduces-running-economythe.html) that added the results of a study in which it was found that switching to the Pose method reduced running economy of the study's subjects over a 12-week period, which, of course, is undesireable from a performance perspective. The study offers no insight into whether running economy would return to pre-Pose levels over a longer period of time.

Concerning the benefits that the Pose method offers relative to the risk or rate of injury, they concluded:

---Trying to make radical, wholesale changes to running technique is probably not the optimal way to go, for it simply transfers the point of loading on the skeleton to another area. Specifically, the research study discussed in Part III of the series (a study we were both involved in at UCT) found that 2 weeks of training caused the loading on the knee to be reduced, but the loading on the ankle increased.

---This change in loading is linked to the numerous anecdotal reports of athletes developing Achilles tendon and calf muscle problems after learning Pose, anecdotes which were borne out by the follow up to that study (the part of the study that was never published, incidentally)

---Our recommendation is to look for incremental changes in technique, rather than falling prey to common sense and sound biomechanics packaged as a miracle cure for injuries through marketing strategies

JakeKnight view log	posted: 2/27/2008 at 9:54 PM
	Great post, Jim2. As usual. I have no experience with Pose (or Chi), and I'm sure I'll play around with them at some point out of curiosity. But I've found that the more I run, the more my awkward, stumpy body finds its own way of becoming more efficient. After a couple years, I find myself smoother in my motions, feeling like I'm running gentler and easier, and clearly running faster at the same sustained effort. Without any real attempt to actually work on form. I think the 'incremental' model is the way to go and I think it comes about largely through steady, easy training. I'm sure my form could and will be better, but I suspect that letting it happen naturally, or at least slowly, is better than attempting some quick, artificial fix. Besides, there is no one standard form that leads to universal success. Anyone who thinks so should watch Jim Furyk swing a golf club, and read his stories of his early coaches trying to mold his swing. He only hit his potential when he worked on perfecting his own unique - very weird and ugly - form.
	E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com -----------------------------

Jim2

posted: 2/27/2008 at 11:53 PM

Quote from JakeKnight on 2/27/2008 at 9:54 PM:

I have no experience with Pose (or Chi), and I'm sure I'll play around with them at some point out of curiosity. But I've found that the more I run, the more my awkward, stumpy body finds its own way of becoming more efficient. After a couple years, I find myself smoother in my motions, feeling like I'm running gentler and easier, and clearly running faster at the same sustained effort. Without any real attempt to actually work on form.

I think the 'incremental' model is the way to go and I think it comes about largely through steady, easy training. I'm sure my form could and will be better, but I suspect that letting it happen naturally, or at least slowly, is better than attempting some quick, artificial fix.

Besides, there is no one standard form that leads to universal success. Anyone who thinks so should watch Jim Furyk swing a golf club, and read his stories of his early coaches trying to mold his swing. He only hit his potential when he worked on perfecting his own unique - very weird and ugly - form.

Good points, Jake. Steady, consistent training that enables your body to react to training stimuli and gradually and naturally adapt to become more efficient at handling an increasing workload is optimal for most runners.

BTW, Drs. Tucker and Dugan also posted a very good multi-part series on the subject of running economy that should interest all serious runners, whether or nor Pose or Chi methods are used:

Intro - http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/12/running-economy-introduction.html

Part 1 - http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/12/running-economy-part-i.html

Part 2 - http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/12/running-economy-part-ii.html

Part 3 - http://scienceofsport.blogspot.com/2007/12/running-economy-part-iii.html

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