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What is your cadence on your long runs? (Read 1019 times)


Junior Amphibian

    I've read that all training paces should be run at the same cadence, which is around 180. That seems reasonable for intervals and tempo runs, but shouldn't easy and long runs be considerably slower and relaxed? I don't think how I would be able to sustain 180 bpm for more than 30 minutes.

    "People ask why I run. I say, 'If you have to ask, you will never understand'. It is something only those select few know. Those who put themselves through pain, but know, deep down, how good it really feels." - Erin Leonard

    Mile Collector


    Abs of Flabs

      When I started training for my first marathon, I knew nothing about carbo loading or the 180 cadence thing. I also started my training on a treadmill. I used to run 10 miles on a treadmill on a Friday night. Fun stuff. Nowadays, my cadence is around 184 steps per minute. It wasn't like that when I first started. I noticed that as I got tired, my stride shortened but since I was on the treadmill, I had to increase my cadence in order to keep up with the belt. I happened upon the 180 thing on my own. Maybe you too will do that as you up your mileage.


      Half Fanatic #846

        My natural long run cadence averages 174 - I didn't train for it or alter it (I'm a slow runner, but maybe I take short steps). The only reason that I know it's 174 is because I often run long on the dreadmill and count my steps once in awhile to help pass the time. I'm sure it's more in a short race, and less in a long one. And different still on a hilly route. If it was 160 or 200, that would be fine too. I can't train like the elites do because I would stay injured all the time if I tried, although I could do 180, but why? Not all elites do that anyway - that's just an average reported cadence for them. But it might be interesting to see if anyone here has a really "slow" or "fast" pace, whatever that is and what the average non-elite pace might be just in general terms. Smile

        "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  


        Half Fanatic #846

          I also started my training on a treadmill. I noticed that as I got tired, my stride shortened but since I was on the treadmill, I had to increase my cadence in order to keep up
          Good point! Big grin

          "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  

          Mishka-old log


            I actually have no idea. Never counted.
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              Half Fanatic #846

                Scout - where are you?
                Hiding...

                "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  


                #artbydmcbride

                  180 bpm...but with shorter strides so you go 1.5 minutes slower than 10k pace. Big grin

                   

                  Runners run

                  mikeymike


                    Pretty sure my cadence is the same on my long runs as it is on my short runs.

                    Runners run


                    1983

                      I try to synchronize it with my heart rate. It's tough to do because when I am sitting down, my step cadence slows down more than my heart rate does. But it just takes practice.
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                      jEfFgObLuE


                      I've got a fever...

                        The 180 thing was based on race pace of elite athletes and was originally studied by Jack Daniels at the '84 Olympics. The find was that the typical cadence was ~180 for people running from 1500m on up to the marathon. But here's the thing -- elite male marathoner pace is faster than what nearly all of us here could run 1 mile in. Carlos Lopes won that Olympic marathon with an average pace of 4:56/mi. Joan Benoit won the women's race with an average pace of 5:32/mi. So we're talking about athletes running at 180spm over paces ranging from ~3:47/mi to 5:32/mi. That's a pretty narrow range that most of us at this site don't run in (and those who do really pretty much just dip into it from time to time). Yet somehow, the cadence at these fast paces has been thrust upon us as ideal under all circumstances. To which I've always said, "ideal if you're running that fast." To my knowledge, there haven't been studies done on what's ideal for a 12:00/mi pace, but something tells me that at 180 spm, the stride length is so short that it's probably more efficient to race-walk. I imagine even a world-class athlete, if forced to run 180 spm at that pace might feel unnatural. I base this on my own experiments with cadence on a treadmill. As I slowed down, the 180 really didn't agree with me. The long and short of it -- cadence matters if you're running fast. But it's possibly that if you force an unnaturally high cadence at slower speeds, you may actually be biomechanically less efficient. And you run the risk of injury. DO WHAT FEELS NATURAL. MTA: To answer the original question (cadence for long runs), it depends. It does for me, but for someone who runs their long runs at a faster pace that I do, they might not need to change their cadence/

                        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                        Scout7


                          Daniels stated that people should consider running at a higher cadence to try to avoid injuries. Speed was not his primary thought. There is no magic number. Even the elites run at varying cadences. Additionally, all but a few beginner runners are within 10% of 180. If we are talking about speed, the biggest determinant is force applied to the ground. The greater the force, the longer the stride and the faster the turnover. If you want to improve your turnover, RUN MORE. If you want to specifically work on your stride mechanics (length and rate), run up and down hills. Going up, focus on long strides. Going down, focus on a higher cadence. (Just for Globule, Science Crap Here) As for your cadence, it will naturally vary to some degree depending on your speed. If you're out for a leisurely jog, it will be slower than if you were running the mile all out.
                          jEfFgObLuE


                          I've got a fever...

                            (Just for Globule, Science Crap Here)
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                            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                            mikeymike


                              Daniels stated that people should consider running at a higher cadence to try to avoid injuries. Speed was not his primary thought.
                              Exactly. With speed remaining constant, the slower your stride rate the longer you spend in the air, which means the greater the impact forces with each foot strike. Since most running injuries are the result of repetitive impact forces, it's not surprising most experienced runners tend to have a faster turnover than newbies. It's survival of the fittest. While Daniels doesn't suggest we all run with metronomes, he does say that if you notice your stride rate is sinificantly slower than 180, you may want to work on shorter, lighter strides. He says imagine you're running on a field of eggs and don't want to break any. Imagine yourself flowing over the ground, not bouncing up and down on top of it. To me this is the only kind of "cadence" work any of us should do. Sometimes when I'm feeling beat up I practice what I call "stealth mode." This is where, on an easy run, I try to run while making no sound at all...I did the 2nd half of my run this morning in stealth mode as it turns out. I can never get totally silent but I can come very close. To do this you need to take short quick strides. If you practice this once in a while you'll likely find that your stride rate increases over time on it's own. The amazing thing about a stealth mode run is I always feel much better afterward than before...if my knees are feeling at all banged up and runners knee creeping in, one stealth mode run is generally all it takes for them to feel perfect again at this point.

                              Runners run

                              Scout7


                                Lydiard had the suggestion I made, about using a gentle downhill to work on turnover.
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