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The Wall (Read 939 times)

    Well, everyone knows about the wall. Where you just honestly feel like you couldn't take another step. How do you guys push through the wall? (or do you?) Personally, i just keep chugging along and try to make the remainder of the run/race seem like not alot. "Just 4 more miles and im half way done, then just 8 to go!!"
      Well, everyone knows about the wall. Where you just honestly feel like you couldn't take another step. How do you guys push through the wall? (or do you?) Personally, i just keep chugging along and try to make the remainder of the run/race seem like not alot. "Just 4 more miles and im half way done, then just 8 to go!!"
      The wall does not exist for those who have properly trained. Run more and the wall will move farther and farther away from the starting line.

      When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

        There's "The Wall," but there always seems to be just a big enough crack to squeeze through. And once you do, you've pushed it a little farther away from you for the next time. I don't know anything about your training, but if your hitting the proverbial wall during your training runs, you may need to rethink your strategy. I just looked at your profile. Do you have a running coach at your high school who could assist you with a good training program? Are you interested in the short distances, the long distances, trail running, ultra marathons? Pushing yourself too hard (no matter how young or old) is no fun. However, training properly and getting the most out of it will do wonders for you. Are you doing any cross training? Strength training? All very important to building a well rounded athlete. Good luck! (PS - I enjoyed reading how you got into running in the first place. Do you still run with your mom? Hope so!)

        Leslie
        Living and Running Behind the Redwood Curtain
        -------------

        Trail Runner Nation

        Sally McCrae-Choose Strong

        Bare Performance

         

          I've run one marathon and hit one wall. Before running I was excited and told my friends, family and coworkers about all the training I'd done and how I expected to do in the race. After all that buildup, I didn't want to say that I'd stopped or walked. That got me through those last few miles. On a side note, I'm hoping that the above advice of, "The wall does not exist for those who have properly trained. Run more and the wall will move farther and farther away from the starting line" holds true. My first peaked at 45 miles for one week. For the next one I'll peak at 55 and have eight weeks above 45 miles.

          -------------------------------------
          5K - 18:25 - 3/19/11
          10K - 39:38 - 12/13/09
          1/2 - 1:29:38 - 5/30/10
          Full - 3:45:40 - 5/27/07


          1983

            The wall does not exist for those who have properly trained. Run more and the wall will move farther and farther away from the starting line.
            Maybe this is just semantics, but I would say that the wall can appear regardless of your training if you race faster than your training allowed for. This can apply for someone who has ran 30 miles / week or someone who has done 100 miles / week. I have only run 1 marathon, so my experience is obviously limited. I don't really know if I hit the wall that day or not. After 20 miles, each mile was slower than the last by 15 to 30 seconds and the last 5 miles were definitely not pleasant. Was that the wall? I don't know. I do know that I had zero left in the tank, so if I didn't actually hit the wall, I was probably close enough to touch it.
            Favorite quote: Stop your crying you little girl! 2011: Mt Washington, Washington Trails, Peaks Island, Pikes Peak.


            #2867

              The wall does not exist for those who have properly trained. Run more and the wall will move farther and farther away from the starting line.
              That's true up to a point, but even proper training can fail you if you don't fuel yourself before (and during) your race (depending upon race distance, of course.) No matter what kind of training you do, it's physiologically impossible to retain enough energy in your body in the form of carbohydrate, protein and fat to keep going indefinitely. Most people will run out of fuel around 30-35 kilometers into a run if they aren't refueling themselves as they move along. Yes, I realize that even somebody with 4% or 5% body fat has enough fat in their body to convert to umpteen gazillion calories, but without carbohydrates to burn that fat there is no way to utilize it for energy. The nice part of all this is that training will make you more efficient at burning your fuel, and will also allow you to utilize more fat earlier in the process so that the carbohydrates that you do have last longer. You can also get better at replenishing the glycogen in your muscles as you work out, which makes it possible to avoid the wall if you are in decent shape and refuel.

              Run to Win
              25 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)

              Carly E


              Carly

                Well, everyone knows about the wall. Where you just honestly feel like you couldn't take another step. How do you guys push through the wall? (or do you?) Personally, i just keep chugging along and try to make the remainder of the run/race seem like not alot. "Just 4 more miles and im half way done, then just 8 to go!!"
                It's all mental. My coach tells our team to break through it, and actually gave a very good speech about it. Like that one guy said, for those who train properly, there is no wall. I think there it still a wall, you're just strong enough to break it easily if you train hard. I always think, "My body can do it. My body can run 2 marathons on the pizza I just ate. (because you're body is always capable of more. Shocked you're mind is what tires you the most.) The only thing stopping you is your mind.You're body can always do more. Big grin
                Running is like Mouthwash; if you feel the burn, it's working.


                You'll ruin your knees!

                  It's all mental.
                  So true, and the rest is physical. When my body gives out and my head tells me to quit, my heart compels me to struggle on. At some point, however, my head and my heart get in 'cahoots' with each other. They both demand I stop. That is when my Spirit soars and their protestations are of no avail. I am propelled by a Force unseen, drawn to a potential I have yet to realize. I shake off the burden of the physical and wake up to experience my dream. At last I am free. -Dog Gezgo Lynn B Oh, and I try to go around the wall whenever possible.

                  ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                  Trent


                  Good Bad & The Monkey

                    It's all mental
                    No. It is not. It is pure physiology. You can train properly and then go out and run too hard, too long, outside your abilities or beyond your nutrition and bonk. No matter how well trained you are. The mental part is what you do to prevent it and what you do to deal with it if and when it hits.


                    You'll ruin your knees!

                      No. It is not. It is pure physiology. You can train properly and then go out and run too hard, too long, outside your abilities or beyond your nutrition and bonk. No matter how well trained you are. The mental part is what you do to prevent it and what you do to deal with it if and when it hits.
                      Yup, that too.

                      ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

                      Trent


                      Good Bad & The Monkey

                        Yup, that too.
                        The detailed answer: Fuel for the Run, Fuel for the Race Running is one of the most efficient ways to burn stored calories. As we begin to ramp up through marathon training season, let’s consider how your body stores and uses calories to fuel your runs, and what the limits are for using these energy stores. In this discussion, I will use the abbreviation kCal to represent calories. When you look at the nutrition information on your food, the calories it reports are actually kilocalories (i.e., 1000 calories), but it is simplified for consumers. In this discussion, I will use the more accurate kCal. I will also refer to percentages of your “maximum effort”. Your maximum effort is about the effort required to achieve your maximal heart rate or to calculate your VO2Max. This is about the same effort you would use to run your fastest 200-400 meter interval run following an adequate warm up. This discussion does not account for hydration, caffeine or electrolytes, as they are independent topics that merit their own consideration. Energy Sources Your body uses two energy stores to fuel the run: glycogen and fat. Glycogen is your body’s form of stored carbohydrates, sugars and starches. Glycogen is the primary energy source used for fight or flight type activities, which means it is the primary energy source used when running hard. When you run above 80-90% of your maximum effort, your body is burning almost entirely glycogen to fuel the effort. Below that, your body starts using the second energy source, which is fat. An inaccurate but useful rule of thumb is that your body fuels its effort using glycogen as a percentage of total calories used that is equivalent to your percent effort. So if you are running at a 70% effort, about 70% of the kCal you are using to fuel the effort are coming from glycogen, and the rest come from fat. Running on fat stores works very well, but fat burning is less efficient than glycogen burning, so you have to run more slowly. The human body can contain a maximum of about 2000 kCal of stored glycogen. Glycogen is the energy source we use when we run. Your body stores glycogen in the muscles and in the liver. Most of us burn about 100-140 calories for every mile we run, which means that when running hard, we will run out of glycogen after about 16-18 miles if you start out with full glycogen stores. After you run out of glycogen, your body will force you to stop as you transition from burning glycogen to burning protein (i.e., your leg muscles). Once your body has transitioned, you can run again, albeit more slowly. This transition can be very difficult or painful, and is often referred to as “bonking” or “hitting the wall”. While your body can hold a maximum of about 2000 kCal of energy stored as glycogen, it holds another 4000 kCal for EVERY pound of fat you have (e.g., a 150 lb person with just a 5% body fat will still have almost 8 lbs of fat, worth about 32 000 kCal). Energy expenditure while running is a function of your weight, and to a lesser extent the grade of the road, and to a far lesser extent to your pace. So an 8 minute per mile runner burns energy at about the same rate PER MILE WHILE RUNNING as a 12 minute per mile runner who has the same weight. A 150 lb runner will burn approximately 120 kCal per mile run. Your Energy Limits As above, the reason you bonk in a run is that you run out of glycogen. If you weigh 150 lbs and are running above 80% effort, you will use about 2000 kCal worth of glycogen in about 21 miles. If you are running at a 70% effort, it will take you 24 miles to use 2000 kCal worth of glycogen. So why do you bonk at mile 16 or 18? Well, even if you carb load absolutely perfectly (and most of us do not), when you finish loading, you then go to bed and sleep. When you wake up marathon morning, your body has used up as much as 25-30% of your glycogen just keeping you alive overnight. And the next morning, the little bit you are able to force down into your stomach, well it does not ever get a chance to be stored as glycogen. Go out too fast and you will burn predominantly glycogen relative to fat and use up your stores more quickly. In general, the more you run in your life, the more efficient you get at burning glycogen at a given pace. This is based on total lifetime miles, total weekly miles and total quality miles. People who have run distance for years, and who put in 40-60+ miles per week use and replace glycogen more efficiently than folks who have only been running for a short time and who can only put in 20-30 miles per week or less. The more efficiently you burn glycogen, the less quickly you use it up, and the further you can go at a given speed and effort. Your genetic makeup may also play a role in your glycogen efficiency. Extending your Fuel Taking in calories during the run can extend this by preserving some of the glycogen that is stored in your liver. A packet of energy gel has about 100 calories (worth just under a mile of running) and a 4 ounce cup of a standard sports drink has about 8 calories (about 50-100 yards). Of course, you may actually get fewer calories than this if you don’t consume the entire gel packet or your sports drink is mixed to a dilute concentration. When you run hard and approach your maximum possible effort, your body cannot digest well. This is primarily because your blood is pumped away from your gut and to your muscles. In this situation, even energy gels can be hard to digest. At a true 5k effort of ~90% of your maximal effort, you should have trouble digesting even water or sports drinks. At a true marathon effort of ~70-80% of your maximum effort, you should be able to tolerate candies, simple carbohydrates and fluids, although you may have more trouble with some than with others. At an ultramarathon effort or a walk, you should be able to tolerate and may even crave more complex foods such as candy, potatoes, PB&J, soft drinks, etc. All of this requires trial and error. There is also a limitation to how quickly your body can absorb the calories that you consume. I understand that the ceiling is about 3-400 kCal per hour during exercise, while most of us burn 5-800 kCal per hour depending on weight, pace and ambient temperature. If you feel you need energy supplementation on training runs, you should be able to take in any simple carbohydrate source. Energy gels are good if you want something portable. I personally prefer Little Debbie Oatmeal Pies or Star Crunch bars. I will also occasionally have a nut/granola bar, a banana or banana bread. I usually only have these during the run if I am running over 14ish miles, although I often run miles easy with no calories on the run other than a few cups of sports drink (~<50 kcals="" worth="" total).="" if="" you="" are="" bonking="" on="" your="" marathon="" training="" runs,="" you="" may="" be="" running="" them="" too="" hard="" and/or="" you="" are="" not="" taking="" in="" enough="" calories="" in="" your="" daily="" life.="" when="" to="" start="" supplementing="" your="" stores="" by="" consuming="" energy="" sources="" on="" course="" is="" really="" a="" matter="" of="" personal="" style="" and="" experience.="" the="" manufacturers="" of="" these="" products="" always="" recommend="" that="" you="" take="" some="" before="" exertion="" and="" then="" every="" 30-45="" minutes="" during="" ongoing="" exertion.="" of="" course,="" they="" are="" selling="" a="" product="" and="" want="" to="" sell="" more.="" many="" marathons="" offer="" energy="" gels="" around="" midway="" and="" in="" the="" last="" quarter="" of="" the="" race.="" if="" you="" carry="" your="" own,="" you="" can="" take="" them="" when="" it="" is="" convenient="" to="" you,="" and="" you="" can="" always="" grab="" several="" packets="" during="" the="" race="" and="" save="" them="" for="" later.="" i="" usually="" try="" to="" space="" mine="" regularly="" rather="" than="" wait="" until="" my="" energy="" is="" waning,="" but="" others="" wait="" until="" they="" need="" that="" extra="" boost="" in="" the="" final="" miles.="" try="" it="" in="" training="" and="" on="" your="" long="" runs="" and="" find="" out="" what="" works="" best="" for="" you.=""></50>An Example Playing with the math, we find the following. Assuming that you weigh 150 lbs (thereby burning 120 kCal per mile), that you are running your marathon at 75% effort, and that you are able to store 2000 kCal, but that you also slept during the night and burned 25% of those calories, but that you take enough energy gel and sports drink to get 2 extra miles: ((2 000 kCal glycogen * (1 - 0.25 burned last night)) / (120 kCal per mile * .75 effort)) + 2 miles from carbs on the course = 18.6 miles You will bonk at mile 18.6. Or so. It is never quite this predictable. You can also attenuate this by long-term training (which increases your total body glycogen storage abilities and improves your fat burning at high exertion over time). Pithy Quote Tim Noakes, an internationally renowned running physiologist, described the body’s limits well in his, The Lore of Running. Among many other things, he writes: "The marathon is less a physical event than a spiritual encounter. In infinite wisdom, God built into us a 32 km racing limit, a limit imposed by inadequate sources of the marathoner's prime racing fuel -- carbohydrates. But we, in our infinite wisdom, decreed that the standard marathon be raced over 42 km...So it is in that physical no-man's-land, which begins after the 32 km mark, that is the irresistible appeal of the marathon lies. It is at this stage, as the limits to human running endurance are approached, that the marathon ceases to be a physical event...It is there that you learn something about yourself and your view of life." (Noakes, The Lore of Running, p596) Putting it Together So, how do you use this information to ensure that you avoid running out of stored energy during your goal race? There are several things to keep in mind, based on what I have just presented. These include: 1. Know your pace ability and run it – running too hard for your body’s abilities and training level will favor glycogen burning, and can cause you to use your stores too quickly. Your abilities relate to your race specific training and your innate potential, and they manifest in how your body handles its energy stores as you run. You can determine your pace ability by running shorter races during the same training cycle and extrapolating from them; e.g., do not start your marathon at your recent 10k pace. 2. Start your race with a full tank - make sure that you eat adequately in the days leading up to your goal race, favoring carbohydrate rich foods and consuming approximately 125-150% of your normal baseline daily intake. In the final 12 hours before your race, eat several easily digested small meals made up of simple carbohydrates and fats. 3. Know your in-race fueling strategy – make sure that if you plan to take in calories while running your race, you have experimented with this process and know what works for you. If you prefer a specific energy gel, carry it with you or select a race that offers it. 4. Lose weight - the less you weigh, the more slowly you will burn your stored glycogen and the longer you will be able to run before transitioning to a fat-burning pace. If you have weight to loose, work on losing it, especially before your training cycle begins. 5. Expect the unexpected – even if you do everything correctly, run in your abilities and have taken in adequate nutrition, you may still crash. This could be due to unexpected climatic conditions that divert some of your energy stores to handle, such as cold or wind or rain or big hills. You will need a backup plan, which may include slowing your pace, changing your race goals, increasing your on-course calorie consumption or even dropping from the race and refocusing on another.


                        Imminent Catastrophe

                          To answer the original question, if you do hit the wall (been there, done that): Yeah, just keep plugging on, no matter how badly you want to stop. It will be slow and painful, but you can do it. To use a Star Trek analogy metaphor, you've lost the warp drive but you still have your impulse engines. Would Captain Kirk quit? I...don't...think...so!

                          "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                           "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                          "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                           

                          √ Javelina Jundred Jalloween 2015

                          Cruel Jewel 50 mile May 2016

                          Western States 100 June 2016

                          Trent


                          Good Bad & The Monkey


                          Imminent Catastrophe

                            That's a metaphor. Evil grin Wink
                            Fixed. Sorry, Northwestern University didn't learn me too good. MTA: Tech-ween!

                            "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

                             "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

                            "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

                             

                            √ Javelina Jundred Jalloween 2015

                            Cruel Jewel 50 mile May 2016

                            Western States 100 June 2016

                            Trent


                            Good Bad & The Monkey

                              Wink I went to NU as well...
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